Monk should be more rewarding

[Umero]

This has nothing to do with imperfections. No job is perfect, or should be perfect. This is about balance. They attempted to balance jobs further with 2.1, and they did. Quite a bit. The point here is bringing up another area that can use a slight tweak.

to balance, they should nerf monk imho.

but if they did nerf mnk, the other jobs would have better burst dps, so they have to balance it by giving mnk higher burst dps. and in the end, every job would be identical.

btw, imperfections mean no job is perfect. you just stated my point. so yeah it's about balance. they are quite balanced from the way I view them. you even said it last page, it's not about dps balance and that's quite correct. They just serve different roles when it comes down to specific things and that promotes variety of game play and interests; otherwise, the game only needs 1 single dps job but that would result a boring game.

[Sleigh]

I think the issue right now is that Mantra + Dragon Kick utility is more balanced with DRG's burst, AoE, and multi-DoT situational utility rather than the considerable DPS increase for your BRDs, if you play with BRDs who can reach almost 300 ST DPS without it as I do. I think the goal of balancing the two would be making sure DRG + BRD sustained DPS is more in line with MNK + BRD sustained DPS in both stand-still and more phase-shift/RNG oriented fight, and then you bring whichever melee (or both) you value their utility for.

Some minor suggestions that could balance the DPS difference a bit more:

- Disembowel could be 5% piercing resist but buff DRG's damage (or just make Disembowel work at 10% for DRG only, 5% for BRDs) so they'll do more or less equal damage to what they do now, but the BRD buff will be less potent.
- GL3 in general could be more accessible (something like One Ilm Punch granting GL3 at the cost of a bit of immediate DPS loss), PB cooldown could be closer to 2 minutes, or GL stacks could fall off one at a time every 12 seconds. This would go a long way in balancing MNK to DRG in constant phase shift content, where not only will DRG + BRD beat MNK + BRD, DRG will just plain beat MNK.
- A minor, tiny buff to MNK's DPS, around 5 DPS or so in GL3.

Now, all that being said, I don't think there's a problem right now. For all I agree with Noctis and have experienced the same things playing with Allagan weapon DRGs and having an Allagan weapon on my alt with MNK, the difference isn't too large, and right now, as overgeared as we are for all content, it's more a min/max thing than anything. I'm going to play MNK as my main melee because I enjoy it more. The general public does not and probably won't really know that DRG is more optimal than MNK if one or the other, partially due to MNK pulling bigger numbers in BC on average, partially due to an appalling % of DRGs being the worst skill wise at least on my server (and unfortunately for melee classes, not being a skilled player will show that much more than if using a ranged class).

However, with THAT being said, in 2.2, if the primary blocker of progression is DPS checks as has been the pattern in FFXIV far more than healer/tank checks (who knows, Mantra/INT debuff could be key to a survival check in the future when lesser geared, but right now healers can easily handle all content in the game under-geared so I'm led to believe healing checks will not stop progression), you can bet the progression players will rather down content with less gear using DRG than wait a couple weeks for the DPS checks to be met.

Don't believe me that it's that big a deal? Have a "friend" parse BRD's burst going all out (for such a supposedly low end DPS class their burst is top notch), and multiply that by 1.1. Also parse DRG's burst over 10s vs MNK's over 10s. Also have your friend parse DRG's AoE over 20s vs a MNK's AoE in 20s, even using its once every 3 minutes PB. And then parse MNK + BRD vs DRG + BRD on the same enemy over 5 minutes. In every case the DRG's advantage will be far from negligible, the difference between clearing a mechanic in time or wiping a GCD before phase shift or enrage, the difference between wiping on T9 at 2% or killing the boss due to easily tens of thousands damage added over a long fight.

to balance, they should nerf monk imho.

but if they did nerf mnk, the other jobs would have better burst dps, so they have to balance it by giving mnk higher burst dps. and in the end, every job would be identical.

If they nerfed MNK, DRG would simply put completely out-class MNK. They're close right now, with an edge to DRG from a min/max perspective, in an environment with highly skilled players.

[NoctisUmbra]

@ Sleigh:

You basically hit the nail on the head with all I've been trying to say but explained it better than me and my fumbling on words. Thanks

I've been talking about a high-skill environment and min/maxing from the get go, which is why I'm fixated on something that is likely to not be noticed at all by the general playerbase. When I see a consistent edge at that level of play go to one job over another, I feel compelled to bring attention to it. Also, as you said, it is indeed exacerbated in a game that has so far thrown more DPS checks at us for progression than healing/tanking checks - at least those that would seriously benefit from Mantra or Dragon Kick.

[Umero]

If they nerfed MNK, DRG would simply put completely out-class MNK. They're close right now, with an edge to DRG from a min/max perspective, in an environment with highly skilled players.

agreed. but I would say they should invest in giving us more variety of interesting gear to compensate the differences in gap. that way, the game would be more interesting. Keep tweaking the skills for the sake of a balance isn't that fun imo. Maybe a piece of gear that extends GL duration but having a lower str number. that's just an example.

[kukurumei]

The problem is the mnk is outside the perfect trinity as they say.

A drg increase a brd, which increases a mage. And you don't leave town without a brd most of the time, as does that blm (or double mage), as with more drgs.

Drg+Drg+Brd+mage
Drg+Brd+Brd+mage
Drg+brd+mage+mage


They just all amplify each others power massively when used together.

Mnk sadly does not have anyone to help with except another mnk. Mnks can do a lot of good damage, and may even look great in some parses, but in burst damage, and aoe power, the above combinations are just that much better.

(and in some styles, Brd is still crazy strong with those Auto attack pew pews amplified further by drgs)

And sorry mantra is worthless, in the age of high level healers, and their cure3 spam. Sure you might need a mantra in a single heal or once in a blue moon, but a good group that stacks properly for cure3 (and all primals should be doing it) makes mantra next to nothing.

SE needs to make another blunt weapon job basically.

[NoctisUmbra]

Drg+Drg+Brd+mage

Overall makes sense except this bit. Once you've already got a DRG in the party, and you're to go with another melee it is better to bring a MNK. This ends up giving it quite a low priority in a min-maxing environment for most endgame content.

[Kirinichibon]

I would imagine musketeer/corsair(?) will be blunt. It seems likely that this is near the top of the list for the next class/job.

I'm enjoying MNK...it's very potent and satisfying when rotations fall into place. DRG is boring.

[NoctisUmbra]

I would imagine musketeer/corsair(?) will be blunt. It seems likely that this is near the top of the list for the next class/job.

People have been saying that forever, but looking at the game as it is now I would argue that another ranged DPS isn't really a priority. Yoshi-P has mentioned it himself, and it makes sense, that the next class/job we'll be getting will be scout/stealth type. Likely looking at a Thief class with Ninja as a job - or something in that area. This would also mean a DPS that does slashing damage as opposed to only tanks (though they may also make it piercing, in which case lol...)

[Kuroyasha]

but a good group that stacks properly for cure3 (and all primals should be doing it) makes mantra next to nothing.

SE needs to make another blunt weapon job basically.

But a good group isnt relying on bard inc in dmg to beat a boss. If they are, then that's not a good grp to begin with. Both drg and mnk provide benefits. If you're going to use the logic that since healers can get the job done w/o mantra it's worthless, then bard inc in dmg from drg is worthless since dps can get the job done w/o disembowel( assuming a drg is not in grp, since of course a good drg will use it on boss anyway). They are both beneficial additions to the group should the group decide to use them (or end up with them in a pug).

. Also parse DRG's burst over 10s vs MNK's over 10s. Also have your friend parse DRG's AoE over 20s vs a MNK's AoE in 20s, even using its once every 3 minutes PB. And then parse MNK + BRD vs DRG + BRD on the same enemy over 5 minutes. In every case the DRG's advantage will be far from negligible, the difference between clearing a mechanic in time or wiping a GCD before phase shift or enrage, the difference between wiping on T9 at 2% or killing the boss due to easily tens of thousands damage added over a long fight.

Yea let's compare burst of a designed burst class to the burst of a designed sustained dps class. Let's compare BLM burst and SMN burst while we're at it lololol. If a grp is wiping b/c they dont have disembowel to increase bard's dmg then im worried about the group skill not the classes. And T9? Hello? Unless the whole fight of T9 has been shown already I don't know how this has anything to do with anything being stated here. If the last turn of new coil in 2.2 required a inc in bard dmg from drg to beat it, then that would be some horrible design and make every group take up 2 spots with drg+brd. Let's wait and see on coil b4 we start making up hypotheticals to support our arguments. It would be pretty dumb in my opinion to center the defeat of a boss around 2 dps.

People have been saying that forever, but looking at the game as it is now I would argue that another ranged DPS isn't really a priority. Yoshi-P has mentioned it himself, and it makes sense, that the next class/job we'll be getting will be scout/stealth type. Likely looking at a Thief class with Ninja as a job - or something in that area. This would also mean a DPS that does slashing damage as opposed to only tanks (though they may also make it piercing, in which case lol...)

I can't wait for ninja honestly. My most anticipated class, and really the dps I want to be the most. Just dont make it a tank please lol. I'd roll with it even if they do though . It'd be nice if it could get a bonus from slashing resistance. Would be nice addition to utility for war.

[Kirinichibon]

People have been saying that forever, but looking at the game as it is now I would argue that another ranged DPS isn't really a priority. Yoshi-P has mentioned it himself, and it makes sense, that the next class/job we'll be getting will be scout/stealth type. Likely looking at a Thief class with Ninja as a job - or something in that area. This would also mean a DPS that does slashing damage as opposed to only tanks (though they may also make it piercing, in which case lol...)

I have reservations that a new class and/or race will be implemented before an expansion. They could...but they would have to tweak what's currently some very carefully crafted content. A new class would have to fit in the narrow window of current roles, and folks wouldn't be very happy about that.