Plan to remove benefit for failing leves?

[Terabyt3]

AlexiaKidd has similar ideas as well

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post103794

Hahahaha I just read it. I've never seen that thread before! Nice at least I'm not the only one out there thinking along these lines.

[Rentahamster]

Hahahaha I just read it. I've never seen that thread before! Nice at least I'm not the only one out there thinking along these lines.

I have Alexia's thread listed in my "good ideas" compilation thread. Head there if you want to see a collection of good suggestions over the course of the forum's history.

LINK: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...d-Organizer%29

[darkstarpoet1]

How would you be further punished if the leve rewards were balanced, removing the incentive to fail them on purpose? In fact if they removed the incentive then you would end up much more gil, faction points, and marks. Clearly the SP reward is much more valuable than whatever else you get from completing the leves or you wouldn't see just about everyone doing it. Again, a system that rewards people who TRY to fail is broken and needs to be fixed.

you WILL be further punished because less people will be willing to party up to do your leves. raptor grinding parties will be the norm and leves will be something you do solo. leve parties are done for time saving measures. you remove the reason to party and you remove people willing to party.

[Jaide]

you WILL be further punished because less people will be willing to party up to do your leves. raptor grinding parties will be the norm and leves will be something you do solo. leve parties are done for time saving measures. you remove the reason to party and you remove people willing to party.

How will balancing out the rewards between leves, or simply moving the majority of the SP reward to the completion of the leve (versus kill rewards), change things so that people won't want to party to do leves? The idea is to remove the incentive for people to fail. You should never be rewarded for failure at all, let alone a larger reward for failure over success. The rewards for succeeding should be along the lines of what people get for failing now, so I don't see how that would prevent people from doing them.

Besides, if I recall - the leve system was meant to be a means of supplemental progression for people who didn't have a lot of time to play, not as the primary method of advancement. That's a separate issue though and the current state of things is mostly a result of the lack of alternative content in the game.

[Molly_Millions]

Leves have been THE CONTENT in this game since alpha. I'd argue that they have always been and were meant to be the primary way to rank up, not supplementary. Grinding is supplementary.

[darkstarpoet1]

How will balancing out the rewards between leves, or simply moving the majority of the SP reward to the completion of the leve (versus kill rewards), change things so that people won't want to party to do leves? The idea is to remove the incentive for people to fail. You should never be rewarded for failure at all, let alone a larger reward for failure over success. The rewards for succeeding should be along the lines of what people get for failing now, so I don't see how that would prevent people from doing them.

Besides, if I recall - the leve system was meant to be a means of supplemental progression for people who didn't have a lot of time to play, not as the primary method of advancement. That's a separate issue though and the current state of things is mostly a result of the lack of alternative content in the game.

ok lets see how this will stop people from wanting to party. follow the numbers as it may be hard for some of the people to follow simple math.

now an 8 person party has 8 leves each correct? that's 64 individual runs. i'll just give an average of 10 minutes per leve. i know most of the ones people run take way longer, but i will use 10 just for simple math for simple minds.

ok now lets go to step 1. the way it is with leve linking.

4 people on a leve for max links. 64 total runs/ 4 people = 16 runs on leves for a total of 160 minutes or 2hrs and 40min

ok now let's look at step 2. without leve linking.

single runs x 64 at 10 minutes each = 10hours 40min

the time of a leve party is lower on static leve parties because it saves time with multiple members having the same leve. if they allowed you to choose every leve each reset that would be a different story but since you are limiting them by randomizing the leves you will not be getting those.

that extra 8 hours of time in a party would cause more people to solo their leves in an hour or so and then party for sp grinding. people are going to do what is best sp per hour. if doing individual runs of leves gives less sp per hour than grinding you took away the reason for people to party up and do leves.

besides leve linking and leves were meant for people with less time to play to feel like they were getting something accomplished with their character. explain how taking a leve party from a few hours to half a day takes care of that issue.

[Jaide]

ok lets see how this will stop people from wanting to party. follow the numbers as it may be hard for some of the people to follow simple math.

now an 8 person party has 8 leves each correct? that's 64 individual runs. i'll just give an average of 10 minutes per leve. i know most of the ones people run take way longer, but i will use 10 just for simple math for simple minds.

ok now lets go to step 1. the way it is with leve linking.

4 people on a leve for max links. 64 total runs/ 4 people = 16 runs on leves for a total of 160 minutes or 2hrs and 40min

ok now let's look at step 2. without leve linking.

single runs x 64 at 10 minutes each = 10hours 40min

the time of a leve party is lower on static leve parties because it saves time with multiple members having the same leve. if they allowed you to choose every leve each reset that would be a different story but since you are limiting them by randomizing the leves you will not be getting those.

that extra 8 hours of time in a party would cause more people to solo their leves in an hour or so and then party for sp grinding. people are going to do what is best sp per hour. if doing individual runs of leves gives less sp per hour than grinding you took away the reason for people to party up and do leves.

besides leve linking and leves were meant for people with less time to play to feel like they were getting something accomplished with their character. explain how taking a leve party from a few hours to half a day takes care of that issue.

You're exaggerating and assuming that a full party grabbing whatever leves are available from the counter will have no links - which will never happen. In fact when I do them with linkshell members we frequently have 2-3 links on a leve and that's not even with 8 people. People are failing leves mainly so that they can keep the ones with the highest SP gain. The ability to link them and save time is merely a bonus. If they want to change things so people can pick the ones they want to save time, that's fine - but rewarding failure over success for any reason is backwards and broken.

[Jaide]

Leves have been THE CONTENT in this game since alpha. I'd argue that they have always been and were meant to be the primary way to rank up, not supplementary. Grinding is supplementary.

I never said that grinding was intended to be the primary means of ranking up, only that the game lacked content which left leves as the default means of progression. You're right, they have been the only content in the game to date... but only because they never had the time to add in anything else. If leves were meant to be the primary way to rank up you wouldn't be limited to 8 every 36 hours. They were intended as a boost for casual players with little time to play but right now it's all we have.

[Molly_Millions]

You're exaggerating and assuming that a full party grabbing whatever leves are available from the counter will have no links - which will never happen. In fact when I do them with linkshell members we frequently have 2-3 links on a leve. People are failing leves mainly so that they can keep the ones with the highest SP gain. The ability to link them and save time is merely a bonus. If they want to change things so people can pick the ones they want to save time, that's fine - but rewarding failure over success for any reason is backwards and broken.

No, linking is why we fail them. It's linking that gives the best SP, so we use the best leves for max links. If you start one leve and link 3 more, you get about the same SP as if you ran that same leve 5 times back to back in 1/5 the time.

[FilthyDisco]

Balance leves, make all give around the same SP instead of having a few select over powered ones.

Problem Solved.

/closethread