Plan to remove benefit for failing leves?

[Jaide]

you WILL be further punished because less people will be willing to party up to do your leves. raptor grinding parties will be the norm and leves will be something you do solo. leve parties are done for time saving measures. you remove the reason to party and you remove people willing to party.

How will balancing out the rewards between leves, or simply moving the majority of the SP reward to the completion of the leve (versus kill rewards), change things so that people won't want to party to do leves? The idea is to remove the incentive for people to fail. You should never be rewarded for failure at all, let alone a larger reward for failure over success. The rewards for succeeding should be along the lines of what people get for failing now, so I don't see how that would prevent people from doing them.

Besides, if I recall - the leve system was meant to be a means of supplemental progression for people who didn't have a lot of time to play, not as the primary method of advancement. That's a separate issue though and the current state of things is mostly a result of the lack of alternative content in the game.

[darkstarpoet1]

How will balancing out the rewards between leves, or simply moving the majority of the SP reward to the completion of the leve (versus kill rewards), change things so that people won't want to party to do leves? The idea is to remove the incentive for people to fail. You should never be rewarded for failure at all, let alone a larger reward for failure over success. The rewards for succeeding should be along the lines of what people get for failing now, so I don't see how that would prevent people from doing them.

Besides, if I recall - the leve system was meant to be a means of supplemental progression for people who didn't have a lot of time to play, not as the primary method of advancement. That's a separate issue though and the current state of things is mostly a result of the lack of alternative content in the game.

ok lets see how this will stop people from wanting to party. follow the numbers as it may be hard for some of the people to follow simple math.

now an 8 person party has 8 leves each correct? that's 64 individual runs. i'll just give an average of 10 minutes per leve. i know most of the ones people run take way longer, but i will use 10 just for simple math for simple minds.

ok now lets go to step 1. the way it is with leve linking.

4 people on a leve for max links. 64 total runs/ 4 people = 16 runs on leves for a total of 160 minutes or 2hrs and 40min

ok now let's look at step 2. without leve linking.

single runs x 64 at 10 minutes each = 10hours 40min

the time of a leve party is lower on static leve parties because it saves time with multiple members having the same leve. if they allowed you to choose every leve each reset that would be a different story but since you are limiting them by randomizing the leves you will not be getting those.

that extra 8 hours of time in a party would cause more people to solo their leves in an hour or so and then party for sp grinding. people are going to do what is best sp per hour. if doing individual runs of leves gives less sp per hour than grinding you took away the reason for people to party up and do leves.

besides leve linking and leves were meant for people with less time to play to feel like they were getting something accomplished with their character. explain how taking a leve party from a few hours to half a day takes care of that issue.

[Jaide]

ok lets see how this will stop people from wanting to party. follow the numbers as it may be hard for some of the people to follow simple math.

now an 8 person party has 8 leves each correct? that's 64 individual runs. i'll just give an average of 10 minutes per leve. i know most of the ones people run take way longer, but i will use 10 just for simple math for simple minds.

ok now lets go to step 1. the way it is with leve linking.

4 people on a leve for max links. 64 total runs/ 4 people = 16 runs on leves for a total of 160 minutes or 2hrs and 40min

ok now let's look at step 2. without leve linking.

single runs x 64 at 10 minutes each = 10hours 40min

the time of a leve party is lower on static leve parties because it saves time with multiple members having the same leve. if they allowed you to choose every leve each reset that would be a different story but since you are limiting them by randomizing the leves you will not be getting those.

that extra 8 hours of time in a party would cause more people to solo their leves in an hour or so and then party for sp grinding. people are going to do what is best sp per hour. if doing individual runs of leves gives less sp per hour than grinding you took away the reason for people to party up and do leves.

besides leve linking and leves were meant for people with less time to play to feel like they were getting something accomplished with their character. explain how taking a leve party from a few hours to half a day takes care of that issue.

You're exaggerating and assuming that a full party grabbing whatever leves are available from the counter will have no links - which will never happen. In fact when I do them with linkshell members we frequently have 2-3 links on a leve and that's not even with 8 people. People are failing leves mainly so that they can keep the ones with the highest SP gain. The ability to link them and save time is merely a bonus. If they want to change things so people can pick the ones they want to save time, that's fine - but rewarding failure over success for any reason is backwards and broken.

[Molly_Millions]

You're exaggerating and assuming that a full party grabbing whatever leves are available from the counter will have no links - which will never happen. In fact when I do them with linkshell members we frequently have 2-3 links on a leve. People are failing leves mainly so that they can keep the ones with the highest SP gain. The ability to link them and save time is merely a bonus. If they want to change things so people can pick the ones they want to save time, that's fine - but rewarding failure over success for any reason is backwards and broken.

No, linking is why we fail them. It's linking that gives the best SP, so we use the best leves for max links. If you start one leve and link 3 more, you get about the same SP as if you ran that same leve 5 times back to back in 1/5 the time.

[darkstarpoet1]

You're exaggerating and assuming that a full party grabbing whatever leves are available from the counter will have no links - which will never happen. In fact when I do them with linkshell members we frequently have 2-3 links on a leve and that's not even with 8 people. People are failing leves mainly so that they can keep the ones with the highest SP gain. The ability to link them and save time is merely a bonus. If they want to change things so people can pick the ones they want to save time, that's fine - but rewarding failure over success for any reason is backwards and broken.

i'm not exaggerating at all. i know many including myself would only go through all 3 cities and get the leves i want. those leves would be the ones with the biggest rewards. do you think it would be different? see how many people do this already on locals why would regionals have a different result? if dunes gives a crap reward and a party member has dunes so what toads may have the best reward for me. i'm not going to go all the way to broken water to help you do your one leve for 1k gil and maybe a few k sp. i am going to do my leve and 1 star it to get my rewards as fast as i can. once i get my 8 leves done on 1 star i will then get together a grind group.