Is there a way to design end game content that doesn't lead to a caustic community?

[Gilthas]

This isn't just endgame content, it's everything.

In the vast majority of cases when I see a tank having problems I give them some simple pointers and things usually work out.

There have been only a few cases where I simply couldn't take it anymore and dropped party:

- A Paladin in Dzemael that didn't use Shield Oath and never talked. Our Bard (from my FC) tanked the first boss and then we left. I really think that he hadn't even done the quest to unlock it.
- A Paladin in Garuda NM that wouldn't pull Garuda away from the stones. He talked, but in Italian, and I couldn't get him to understand me.
- A Monk in the level 40 guildhest where you have to kill the 5 demons at roughly the same time. Kept killing one of the demons even though we kept telling him to stop. Wouldn't talk.

There are limits to my patience, and if the other guy can't communicate with me, I just give up.

[BlackPriest]

First off id like to say most of the people that throw stones at the "hardcore" people in my experience have been people in my LS's and my FC that wasnt at 50 when we started doing the hard content or just didnt have the time. But when they hit 50 get to primals they want us to clear the content for them. Which is ok i suppose. So we do that and they die a lot basically getting carried. So they get those cleared now they want to do extremes. So we try and take them and show them the ropes yet they continuously fail. Either they cant grasp the concept that every fight is scripted or they just cant dodge. So we disband. Then were labeled hardcore and selfish because they didnt get their win.

Next is coil. They want to do coil. Thats fine we can bring a new member in coil for turns 1-3 maybe 4 depending on their gear. We explain the fight to them tell them whats going to happen. Go over their rotations. And get started. Immediate deaths. No dodging. dps is horribad and we go ahead and kill it. We continue on with coil and attempt a turn 4. DPS is extremely lacking their gear isnt up to speed and they cant get on Teamspeak to listen to us tell them what to do and when. So we disband and tell them we will try again next week. Go ahead and get in some pugs or learning parties to get some exp.

But then people complain that we arent bringing them along and helping them and again we are selfish.

Now do this 40+ times. And you get to where im at. Im not helping anyone anymore. I want to get on clear content and get off. because ive already done it a thousand times. If you dont take the time to understand a fight, watch a video, get in a learning group(dont give me but i cant find any. make your own!) bash your head against it with a group till you get it down (like we did) then why should I care honestly? So technically the only difference I see between the "hardcore" and the "casual" crowd is the ability to put in time and learn the fights and play your job properly. Now the wait for the response "I dont have 80 hours a week to dedicate learning a fight..."

[Sessurea]

terrible idea to carry people through HMs...even though its "nice" to do so. People who don't even -try- to carry themselves should be ignored....really , they should either quit or L2P. My problem in titan EX atm is that most of the people I meet should go back to HM and learn how to dodge plumes. And these people rage quit when they die....which frustrates me no end because I'd have no problem trying to explain to the group what/how/when to do things. I have been trying for days now and none of my groups live much longer then the 1st double Gaol followed by upheaval, when titan ex is arguable almost as easy as HM until heart phase? T_T

[Zakalwe]

Pretty sure City of Heroes managed to have endgame content while maintaining a not-caustic community.

So did Lord of the Rings Online, even as the publisher was in the process of slowing, then stopping new endgame raids and dungeon content. Don't know what it's like over there now, as I left last summer when it became clear the game had been put into maintenance mode while the publisher sought to squeeze out as much income from the game as possible while they run out their license clock. A couple differences: a lore-drenched longish leveling process and no multi-world dungeon finder.

[Raknar]

Everyone knows you skip through fields of flowers holding hands, running noobs need to go back to WoW.

Omg, you WoW casuals. The term is "frolic".

[Gamemako]

- A Monk in the level 40 guildhest where you have to kill the 5 demons at roughly the same time. Kept killing one of the demons even though we kept telling him to stop. Wouldn't talk.

Most parties do that completely wrong -- it usually takes 15 minutes before people realize that all of them have to be downed at once, no matter how many times you try to tell them beforehand. It's usually a mess of people attacking the wrong targets until one by one, they stop attacking and ask why they're not staying dead.

So technically the only difference I see between the "hardcore" and the "casual" crowd is the ability to put in time and learn the fights and play your job properly.

And yet, excessive item level requirements everywhere when item level won't teach a player any of that.

[Estellios]

terrible idea to carry people through HMs...even though its "nice" to do so. People who don't even -try- to carry themselves should be ignored....really , they should either quit or L2P. My problem in titan EX atm is that most of the people I meet should go back to HM and learn how to dodge plumes. And these people rage quit when they die....which frustrates me no end because I'd have no problem trying to explain to the group what/how/when to do things. I have been trying for days now and none of my groups live much longer then the 1st double Gaol followed by upheaval, when titan ex is arguable almost as easy as HM until heart phase? T_T

I think the problem with Weights is that it was a set pattern for Hard Mode that you could pre-move for without any problems, whereas in EX if you pre-move you get people killed. It's reaction time based rather than knowing what is coming up which is rougher for some people.

[jars]

anonymity is a myth, people are just as capable of being asshats on twitter/facebook

[Arkghyom]

First off id like to say most of the people that throw stones at the "hardcore" people in my experience have been people in my LS's and my FC that wasnt at 50 when we started doing the hard content or just didnt have the time. But when they hit 50 get to primals they want us to clear the content for them. Which is ok i suppose. So we do that and they die a lot basically getting carried. So they get those cleared now they want to do extremes. So we try and take them and show them the ropes yet they continuously fail. Either they cant grasp the concept that every fight is scripted or they just cant dodge. So we disband. Then were labeled hardcore and selfish because they didnt get their win.

Next is coil. They want to do coil. Thats fine we can bring a new member in coil for turns 1-3 maybe 4 depending on their gear. We explain the fight to them tell them whats going to happen. Go over their rotations. And get started. Immediate deaths. No dodging. dps is horribad and we go ahead and kill it. We continue on with coil and attempt a turn 4. DPS is extremely lacking their gear isnt up to speed and they cant get on Teamspeak to listen to us tell them what to do and when. So we disband and tell them we will try again next week. Go ahead and get in some pugs or learning parties to get some exp.

But then people complain that we arent bringing them along and helping them and again we are selfish.

Now do this 40+ times. And you get to where im at. Im not helping anyone anymore. I want to get on clear content and get off. because ive already done it a thousand times. If you dont take the time to understand a fight, watch a video, get in a learning group(dont give me but i cant find any. make your own!) bash your head against it with a group till you get it down (like we did) then why should I care honestly? So technically the only difference I see between the "hardcore" and the "casual" crowd is the ability to put in time and learn the fights and play your job properly. Now the wait for the response "I dont have 80 hours a week to dedicate learning a fight..."

And here is our daily dose of cyanide. Delicious!

[Kes]

Also keep in mind, gaming as a whole is made up of a WIDE range of ages. The maturity level will also vary due to this. Tons of grown folk are immature and childish, add to the mix actual children and teenagers - half of which don't have the life experience to make them act like they have half a glass of sense/manners/consideration/foresight/humility. So the state of the community is not exactly surprising.