Is there a way to design end game content that doesn't lead to a caustic community?

[Velo_Vandore]

Personally, I think the issue is trying encouraging different types of players to work together where they really need to be divided.

Example 1: the duty roulette is a great idea, but bring it's own issues. The benefit is that it keeps the story mode and early level dungeons alive for new players even when most of the community has passed that content, so at least you have someone to play with. The issue however is that new and inexperienced players are forced to rush story mode dungeons (especially lvl50) or get shouted at for making mistakes, because naturally many players wanna progress as quick as possible and want those daily fast tomes.

Now that's an issue but not sure of solution - If you offer no reward for re-running old content, new players will struggle to get a group. If you do offer any worthwhile reward then players will come, but will their goals will often be far different to the new player, causing frustration on one side and pressure on the other. I hope some players will learn to understand why the duty roulette exists in the first place and do the job they are being paid for (in bonus tomes) - to support new / inexperienced players who can't otherwise get a group (and don't presume people are happy to be carried through - some people don't just play for the completion / reward). That said, this understandably won't happen because it's arguable the new players are a minority and should get their own group, and many players care about their own goal and not other peoples (why should they).

Example 2: Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't reached crystal tower yet but have read about and dread it). The Crystal Tower REQUIRES you to play with 16 random players (minimum). I really don't understand the reason for this requirement but it bothers me a great deal. Casual and hardcore players (and every variation) will inevitably be forced to work together. With conflicting experience levels and goals of course there will be friction and why should either group sacrifice their own objective (be it a quick run or slow and easy).

Perhaps some casual / hardcore check box on the duty finder would help like-minded players find each other? If you tick casual there's NO excuse to rush players or get angry about mistakes. If you tick hardcore there's no excuse for mistakes and inexperience, so expect annoyance or a kick if you're not up to par.

Personally, I've decided to quit duty finder, and use the party finder exclusively, setting criteria as slow and easy, newcomers welcome, no cutscene skipping, etc. I thought it was a good plan but to my surprise casual players don't seem to have an interest in slow runs. Perhaps they don't want to sacrifice the roulette bonus tomes and would rather face the inevitable abuse from PUGs? Perhaps they simply don't feel they should have to? Perhaps from experience they gave up on the party finder (I spent over three hours waiting for a casual group for Pharos Sirius on Saturday without luck)?

If you are sick of the stress in end game content and don't mind failing content repeatedly so long as the group is nice, please check out my thread and contact me - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-slow-and-easy

[BlueMage]

No. There is no way to design a community with perfect peace and harmony where everyone gets along regardless of skill level and knowledge. Not in a video game, and not in real life.

[tymora]

Anonymity brings out the worst in people, but that is just a reflection of one's inner self.
Indulging that aspect without self-control will slowly but surely erode that same self-control in real life.

[SummonerSenah]

Caustic communities aren't specific to MMOs, though. Online FPS games suffer as well without even having "endgame" type content. If you've ever played Halo, Gears of War, or Call of Duty, you know what I'm talking about. People act like they are part of MLG and if you can't play at their level, GTFO as far as they're concerned. They constantly look down on new players and refuse to teach them or guide them, but then complain that they are carrying them. Well, yes, if you don't let them learn, that's what is going to happen. If the more experienced players weren't so hard on new players from the start, the new players would be more likely to stick around and become experienced.

[BlueMage]

Caustic communities aren't specific to MMOs, though. Online FPS games suffer as well without even having "endgame" type content. If you've ever played Halo, Gears of War, or Call of Duty, you know what I'm talking about.

Its not even exclusive to gaming.

Nobody wants the person who's never played the sport before on their team when they're looking to win.

Nobody would rather hire somebody who doesn't know what they're doing when they can get someone who DOES know what they're doing.

Its human nature for people to be spiteful of anyone too far above them and too far below them.

[Jonjon]

Draupnir Cave, seriously? I beat that first time out and half the party were new to the instance. Coil from start to finish took me about 8 weeks from first setting foot in there to downing Twintania. Aion's PvE is stupidly easy in comparison to XIV, even the hardest dungeon at the time (60 cap) was just a magic resist check and healer test although that isn't the game's focus really.

The only reason Draupnir Cave is hard at all is because they set the entry level way too low.

Please tell me which version of Aion you completed DC so easily? DC and Labs were the most hated dungeons at launch because of the difficulty and low rewards of them. I can tell you dungeons that used to take careful planning and coordination have been turned into face roll easy. Hell half the elite areas are now nothing more than solo fodder. Which is similar to this game in that regard.

[myahele]

I'd probably say have each of these HM dungeon and primals have different/increasing ilv req. As it stands once you reach 50 you can join most of these instances.... which may be problematic.

Hopefully the next hm dungeons will require ilv that's full darklight, which should be easy.

[Tenryou]

This is just the honest truth. Endgame is not for Everyone that being said You have you forerunners who set the standards and those who follow behind. Once something has been done a certain way and proven to work people expect perfection 100% all the time. The only thing you can do is find people who are patience enough to do endgame with new players and be honest with you if you bad at it and try to find w/e your good at.

[Alkimi]

Please tell me which version of Aion you completed DC so easily? DC and Labs were the most hated dungeons at launch because of the difficulty and low rewards of them. I can tell you dungeons that used to take careful planning and coordination have been turned into face roll easy. Hell half the elite areas are now nothing more than solo fodder. Which is similar to this game in that regard.

This was a few months before 4.0, so 3.7 or w/e it was. Having looked into it, it seems it was nerfed a long while back. It's still challenging for it's level, but the only difficult part is Bakarma at the end with his chicken shenanigans, everything else is 100% tank and spank.

[Siobahn]

And here is our daily dose of cyanide. Delicious!

You think this person has a bad attitude? I'm sorry, but I completely agree with him completely. The biggest problem in almost every MMO is the part of the community that thinks that they should be carried through every encounter without putting forth any effort. The members of the community that whine and throw temper tantrums because "I tried to join a coil group in my AF and NQ i47 jewelry, and the people told me my gear was bad!!! I was doing 35 dps as a monk!!! That's really good for me because I haven't even taken 5 minutes to read a quick guide!! WAAAAAAHHHH!!!!! The hardcore players are so mean because they don't give me stuff for free!!! WAAAAHHH!!!!"

I see a lot of that kind of attitude on these forums. Every time I see someone use the word "toxic," it's followed by some form of argument similar to what I quoted above. Of course people are going to treat you like garbage if you whine and complain that they should put in a ton of work to learn the game, only to carry you through it.

I do a lot of things in-game to help newer players. I almost alway join a Titan HM fight in party finder if I have free time because I enjoy the fight, and everyone should be able to enjoy content. I will, however, leave when half the group continuously wipes because they're standing in plumes, or fall off the edge because they're in the wrong spot during geocrush.

Maybe instead of complaining about why people won't give you free handouts, you could focus on asking yourself, "What can I do so that I'm doing my part in a group?" The nasty parts of this game's community are the people who simply haven't figured out that freeloading in a group with 7 other people makes YOU the douche bag, NOT the other 7 when they get mad at you.