Too much dancing

[Hiroradius]

Too much dancing?

When they make a fight that doesn't have the "dance" people cry it's too hard, when they put in the fight with the dance, people cry that they have to stop dpsing and move.

MMO's use to be around strategy and gear checks, but when they went that route, it took a LONG time to get the gear.. a LONG TIME. People complained that it was too hard to get the needed gear for these fights and didn't want to play. So to keep making money, keep the games going longer, the developers had to make it easier to get gear, and people still complained because they couldn't get the gear.. and then it was made easier, and complaints, and easier, and complain... see the pattern?

People expect and want their ideal game from every single mmo, and complain when it's not.

People complain about moving out of circles, YET in Final Fantasy 11 there wasn't circles to move, you just stood there and focused on your tp, mp, and timing, BUT people found that boring because they don't need to worry about what they were doing (in that game people didn't understand tank mechanics very well, so when a dark knight came along and did one of their combos and pulled hate or a thief SATA and wiped the group, it was the tanks fault, EVEN THOUGH they were the one's who went all out and killed the group), so to combat the boringness of just standing there waiting to do an ability, and try and add a bit of skill to the players so it isn't just outgear the fight and your done, games like WoW started adding fights you had to move around, you are still waiting on cooldowns while moving, but now just not standing there. It was a great idea, now you need not just gear but skill to play and dungeon and raid, but people who lacked the skill complained because they couldn't do it, so after a while to increase revenue to get those people who complained and were quitting, they started giving gear to allow you to overcome the skill. And that is where we are now in the mmo community.

Raid and boss battles that require skill, but that skill can be overcome by gear. Yes there are some fights that the gear check is there, but again look at turn 2 for example.. it is a skill check fight, but people who didn't have the skill to transfer a buff around, found a way to make it a tank n spank fight that required no skill whatsoever, just gear.. now you need gear alone to overcome the fight.. some people say it is a skill check.. ONLY ON HEALER, not on anyone else. Turn 1 was a skill fight with the slimes and position and dps control, but gear again turned it into an almost simple fight. DPS burns, off tank (or rare case bard) makes a slime and feeds until split, then you burn the boss.. the only skill that is still needed is making sure they die at same time.

Pharos is a skill fight, but people are so overgeared for it that it makes it harder because the try and tank n spank knowing they overgeared it.. and look what happenend? Pharos is the most hated dungeon there is.. why? Boss 1, boss 2, and boss 4 all required skill, gear doesn't overcome that, so people have to actually LEARN the boss mechanics and follow them. Boss 1, hit boss and then stop hitting boss and kill dogs otherwise dogs kill healer and group dies. What happenend when people first went in, burn boss, ignore adds, helaer dies "WTF you stupid healer why you die" or "WTF stupid tank, get adds", rinse and repeat.. nobody understood the fight they just figured their i70+ gear would let them overpower the dungeon with a gear check of i57. Boss 2, kill eggs too fast, boss enrages you go splat, kill eggs to slow you get overrun by adds. So first try was destroy eggs, boss kills, 2nd try don't kill eggs and got overrun by adds, 3rd try kill highlighted eggs boss enrages we go splat.. people give up. 3rd boss is just too weak so burn strat works. 4th boss was about add control, healing, positioning during her teleport, and interuppts.. yet most people STILL can't beat that boss, becasue either adds are ignored they grab healer healer can't heal we wipe, or people stand in center and get killed by Siren's attack, or tank doesn't interuppt and everyone takes major damage and a healing debuff that the healer panics because everyone is about to die and doesn't remove while healing at only 30% effective... those are strategy mechanic fights and most people can't do it.

[Fendred]

I don't think the problem is too much dancing. Honestly, once a player has completed almost all the content in the game, the very structure of the game leads to an unending cesspool of frustration, pain, and anguish. In a single player game, hard bosses like Twintania and the like are a challenging, but ultimately fun experience because once you have mastered the fight, you can feel confident that if you were to do it again, you can be sure you will win. Trying to do the same thing in an MMORPG will only give that sense of satisfaction for the first week. Afterwards, a never-ending conveyor belt of players new to the fight or just the monotony of rerunning the same old thing over and over again will fray away even the most patient of players.

So people try to analyze their frustration and say that there are "too much of x mechanic" or something else, but really what is happening is that they are being turned into victims of a system that psychologically demands that they win all the important raid fights and cap their currency every week. It's the result of taking what is really more of a stop gap measure against players performing a mass exodus out of the game and implementing that instead of something with honest replayability.

[Raestloz]

I do think that there's too much movement with the likes of Titan. CT seems to get the mix of movement and strategy pretty well, especially Behemoth one

[Vesuvias]

ill give my two cents on this one, I have always felt that they tried to mix oldschool tank and spank mechanics, with "true action combat" and it doesn't work. As it becomes less about positioning and knowing when to use certain skill in your chain and how many buttons can i spam till i have to move, especially as playing as a black mage. I will not mention the name of my old game but it was true action combat, I literally had to the bosses attack (actually use a dodge skill, not just walk out of the way) or eat the attack and odds are die. Now in this game they want me to dodge circles occasionally while i am forced to eat certain attacks, yes again that happened in my old game, but it was very rare, and in those instances it was up to the rest of the party to trade a debuff or other such mechanic and we could avoid it entirely. and lastly, IF I was truly skilled in my class i could literally go the entire dungeon dodging attacks and not take any damage.

[Vesuvias]

Now as i stated earlier if they want to do red circles and danger zones, screw the wow combat and give us "true action combat" and i think that this game would get a lot more interesting...

Bloody post limits...

[Sibyll]

Too much dancing?.....

I hope they just increase the rewards for Pharos instead of nerfing it. I understand people skip it because it's not worth the effort when Copperbell/Haukke HM give the same reward for significantly less effort, but I think it'd be better to give motivation for skilled players to get more bang for their buck.

The irritating thing about gear overcoming skill checks is that groups almost entirely go for the gear check method, ADS for example, making it insanely difficult to find a group that's willing to do the skill method or raising the gear expectations for groups looking to do the gear check method. The 2-split vs the 3-split method on Garuda Ex is another example. Try doing the 2-split method with tanks that are at i65-i70 and see how well that goes. Yet another fight where it's almost impossible to do it in the manner it was intended because people can't be bothered to learn simple mechanics or improve.

[Simaril]

Too much dancing?

When they make a fight that doesn't have the "dance" people cry it's too hard, when they put in the fight with the dance, people cry that they have to stop dpsing and move.

MMO's use to be around strategy and gear checks, but when they went that route, it took a LONG time to get the gear.. a LONG TIME. People complained that it was too hard to get the needed gear for these fights and didn't want to play. So to keep making money, keep the games going longer, the developers had to make it easier to get gear, and people still complained because they couldn't get the gear.. and then it was made easier, and complaints, and easier, and complain... see the pattern?

People expect and want their ideal game from every single mmo, and complain when it's not.

I like what you’re getting at here… Right now it seems like dancing is the only “check” in the game. I would prefer more variety. Perhaps Titan could be an individual avoidance check, Garuda could be a coordinated movement check, and Ifrit could be a gear check. That kind of almost seems like what they were going for, but instead it feels like they’re all 100% dance checks. Gear taking an insanely long time seems like a relic of the past… but getting all ilv 70 before level 50, and LONG before you need it has removed any feeling of gear check. There are gear checks... but the gear is readily available to anyone with crafting and/or gil. Also, other classic mmo mechanics seem to be absent: threat is pretty trivial on most fights, mana is only a problem for healers when people fail at dancing...

ill give my two cents on this one, I have always felt that they tried to mix oldschool tank and spank mechanics, with "true action combat" and it doesn't work. As it becomes less about positioning and knowing when to use certain skill in your chain and how many buttons can i spam till i have to move, especially as playing as a black mage.

Totally agree! “how many buttons can I spam before I move” reminds me of old school Street Fighter, or some lame FPS.

[Viridiana]

Gear taking an insanely long time seems like a relic of the past… but getting all ilv 70 before level 50, and LONG before you need it has removed any feeling of gear check. There are gear checks... but the gear is readily available to anyone with crafting and/or gil.

You do realize that the vast majority of players, unlike you, do not level all of their crafting classes to 50 before getting their first combat class to 50, right? That is to say, most people's first level 50 will not be decked out in full ilvl 70 upon reaching 50.

[Lemon8or]

So let me get this straight. You specifically bought items to make gears enough to outgear any gear checks in the beginning of the end-game then complain that OMG I have to dodge and my gears mean nothing at those levels? Try doing AK pre-nerf with AF gears and you'll see your sooooooo desired gear checks. The contents you listed are to be done before you got i70. It's just nerfed now because the current gear check is in Coil. It used to be that if you don't have the gears, you have to work the skills you got to get past it.

[AldoVonAlexandros]

i like the way it is, i find it challenging, and like me, there are other casual players that love the game the way it is, i didnt had crafters lvled up, i started with an arcanist, dungeons were pretty hard, especially AK, damn wall haha, i dont know, maybe u play a lot more hours than me and you find this mechanics boring, but they r fine with me