Too much dancing

[Simaril]

Simply put: too many encounters are extremely heavily focused on moving out of damage. In the legendary Final Fantasy games of the past where we were introduced to Cid, and airships, and chocobos… how much movement out of the bad stuff was there?!? Very, very little – yet the games and encounters were interesting, challenging and FUN.

[Simaril]

I’ve raided in EverQuest, World of Warcraft, and I’ve just begun in FFXIV - though Garuda HM and Thornmarch. I’ve seen enough to know - I’m not overly thrilled with this game’s heavily choreographed movement approach to raid encounters. It didn’t keep me interested in WoW long, and I’m even less inclined to play a WoW clone.

Yes, there are some gear checks, supposedly Titan HM is one… but the movement aspect is pretty much always more important, and it’s often not hard to out gear an encounter before you reach it… So in other words; gear checks are minimized, and you’re always left with “the dance.” Raid encounters don’t have to be this way – it’s just the way so many ARE that it’s hard to think about how they could or should be.

As a Whm I grabbed ilvl 70 gear basically as soon as I hit 50 (50 in all crafts), and I haven’t felt like my mostly unmelded gear has even remotely been tested… However, I DO feel that my ability to get out of the bad area is constantly tested.

Many of you would probably say it’s my problem that I don’t like it, or I’m not good at getting out of the bad area… but I don’t think that’s what all MMOs, and particularly Final Fantasy MMOs should be about.

[JonBigwood]

Yes, there are some gear checks, supposedly Titan HM is one…

Titan is mostly about dodging and staying alive (not gear), and be able to do your heals or attacks at the same time, except for the tank.
CT is mostly a communication and coordination check. Regardless of gear and skill, it can go horribly if people start too early and leave others locked out. Or if somebody is new and he doesn't ask or is not helped. A noob tank putting Valefor's tail against his team or other team, people killing the Platinals on top of each other, etc.

[Galen_Malchome]

Yes that is the main encounter design problem in MMOs anymore. It is Dance Dance Raiding rather than actually having a strategic or tactical nature. I would love to see encounters designed based upon a Tower Defense scenario, maybe even involving the placement of assess in the field, like the South Park Tower Defense game. There is also a WW2ish alternative world Tower Defense game that is a first person shooter. You can even have variable/scale-able rewards based upon how much assistance the group/raid uses to complete. More resources expended less reward.

Twitch gaming is over-rated and is more about learning what order to press your movement buttons than actually reacting to in-game cues.

[Simaril]

Twitch gaming is over-rated and is more about learning what order to press your movement buttons than actually reacting to in-game cues.

I'd rather play chess than a FPS.

FF tactics did involve more positioning than the normal series of FF games, and was really fun, challanging, and interesting, particularly if you didn't use exploits. I've been dreaming of FF tactics online for 15 years.

[Hadeed]

I'd rather play chess than a FPS.

FF tactics did involve more positioning than the normal series of FF games, and was really fun, challanging, and interesting, particularly if you didn't use exploits. I've been dreaming of FF tactics online for 15 years.

yep so this game is like Tactic but real time xD;;;;;; but i like the other stuff like defending or placing some traps

[dimsumdarren]

theres only so many ways you can disguise the red circles....make them yellow now! and pulsating! Maybe make them look like plumes...but a dodge-the-circle fight is still a dodge-the-circle fight. I'm quite disappointed with raid design. They had a chance with CT to make something for large group that took some coordination, but its basically just dodge-the-circle, but for 3 groups instead of 1.

I thought RIFT had some very well designed raid encounters, especially in hammerknell. You had people going upstairs, and downstairs, and dodging rotating laser, and positioning drops and stuff. I hope FFXIV doesnt just stick with dodging red circles, cause that sorta stuff has limited shelf life.

[soopadook]

They had a chance with CT to make something for large group that took some coordination, but its basically just dodge-the-circle, but for 3 groups instead of 1.

You're kidding me, right? Take a closer look at CT. The Bone dragon fight is amazingly unique, there are no "dodge the circles" at all in that fight. What about the Atomoses? And Thanatos (or w/e his name is). Or the Bomb part. Or Behemoth. What you said literally only applies to the first set of trash mobs and Acheron. All the other fights are amazingly choreographed and take tons of coordination and strategy. The only reason it's so easy to do now is because EVERYONE knows the fights because everyone grinds it.

[Orophin]

Simply put: too many encounters are extremely heavily focused on moving out of damage. In the legendary Final Fantasy games of the past where we were introduced to Cid, and airships, and chocobos… how much movement out of the bad stuff was there?!? Very, very little – yet the games and encounters were interesting, challenging and FUN.

In the Legendary FF games your sprites sat there and ate damage and you healed through it. I think fights would be very dull and boring if all boss mechanics work from the perspective of a tank where everyone takes damage and must be healed for a majority of the fight. (course depending on the party this happens anyway...)

[Dedayius]

The DPS checks are really more of an uptime check for the most part. IE: you have 60 seconds to do X amount of damage while dodging red stuff. This is why ranged are often preferred and have such an advantage over melee; they just have better uptime. Thornmarch and Turn 4 are different in that they're more controlled chaos type of fights and, turn 4 anyways, really does require a certain level of gear or you just won't make it through because you should have 98% dps uptime as any class.

Sadly, you'll soon find out that Titan HM is purely about dodging. If you are appropriately geared (no relics) for the fight, it basically comes down to one person dies you wipe pre-heart phase. After that, 3-4 people knowing how to dodge and you'll win.