Stop "fixing" the MW scrap it

[Anty]

as of now like someone said already MW is for the buyers, not for the sellers. This is nice for the non-crafters or the people who only npc stuff. But in the end it will be like a lot of mmos with similar systems - AH aion etc. etc.

you see prices, people undercut, undercut (its an undercut fest already and we have only a few people playing, i dont wanna imagine more people playing it).

The more people undercut the more sellers/crafters won't bother crafting for the economy, only for themselves. People won't sell mats in the wards but npc them (already happening).

In the end the buyers had some cheap stuff at the first place but in the end the wards will be empty since nobody cares selling stuff there. This is most likely goin to happen sooner then most people think. Most mmo AH are empty 1 year after launch because of exactly this undercutting.

Haveing a similar system like in fxi - can be improved in some aspects, makes a seller market and keeps the economy more stable and people have a profit and WILL produce for the people who don't craft rather just for themselves.

[Wolfie]

as of now like someone said already MW is for the buyers, not for the sellers. This is nice for the non-crafters or the people who only npc stuff. But in the end it will be like a lot of mmos with similar systems - AH aion etc. etc.

How is it for the buyers when it's more inconvenient than any other system available?

you see prices, people undercut, undercut (its an undercut fest already and we have only a few people playing, i dont wanna imagine more people playing it).

That's happening now and there's literally nothing that can be done to stop it. It's a principal of economics that people will compete in prices, because selling more items cheaper and faster is better than selling less items slower, but for more money. Furthermore, people will only undercut until a price stabilizes to its actual worth; items don't get undercut down to nothing, because then trying to acquire or sell them stops being profitable. Regardless, this has nothing to do with MW and everything to do with the game's currency, available items, and the rate at which currency and items enter and leave the economy.

The more people undercut the more sellers/crafters won't bother crafting for the economy, only for themselves. People won't sell mats in the wards but npc them (already happening).

Again, nothing to do with MW. Crafters in WOW and Aion still liberally make items for profit on the AH, because once someone purchases that item, it's taken out of the economy PERMANENTLY (thanks to soulbinding).

In the end the buyers had some cheap stuff at the first place but in the end the wards will be empty since nobody cares selling stuff there. This is most likely goin to happen sooner then most people think. Most mmo AH are empty 1 year after launch because of exactly this undercutting.

Bull****. Go make a trial account on WOW and Aion and check out how well stocked their AH's are. People only stop selling X item because it stops being profitable, which, for the umpteenth time, has nothing to do with how that item is being sold (AH or MW or Bazaar or whatever).

[Anty]

-How is it for the buyers when it's more inconvenient than any other system available?

i was talking about MW as a system like AH, and with a system for byers i mean that you can see all prices, leading to much more undercutting then it did with the ffxi system. The fact that it is clunky and inconvenient to use well, i think we all know haha

-That's happening now and there's literally nothing that can be done to stop it. It's a principal of economics that people will compete in prices, because selling more items cheaper and faster is better than selling less items slower, but for more money. Furthermore, people will only undercut until a price stabilizes to its actual worth; items don't get undercut down to nothing, because then trying to acquire or sell them stops being profitable. Regardless, this has nothing to do with MW and everything to do with the game's currency, available items, and the rate at which currency and items enter and leave the economy.

That is true to some degree, but the system ffxi had slowed this process down a lot.

-Again, nothing to do with MW. Crafters in WOW and Aion still liberally make items for profit on the AH, because once someone purchases that item, it's taken out of the economy PERMANENTLY (thanks to soulbinding).

the 1 year i played aion the AH was a undercutting fest until it was almost empty!!! after server merges and trash mobs dropped golden gear the economy got flooded again. But crafted items were rare as hell since nobody bothered crafting,
people sold to npc. soulbinding dindt prevent that (even though the idea is very good imo).
And the fact that the prices are taken out permanently would only affect a new player who didnt watch the economy one bit. Everyone else knows the prices.

-Bull****. Go make a trial account on WOW and Aion and check out how well stocked their AH's are. People only stop selling X item because it stops being profitable, which, for the umpteenth time, has nothing to do with how that item is being sold (AH or MW or Bazaar or whatever).

I don't like wow, played the trial, so i wont bother, i did play aion, and like i posted before... it changed i dunno how it is now but it became more and more childish and i dont wanna even start with the community. Good for them if its better now. Still the system of ffxi imo is better. I might not be as omniscient if it comes to the mmo AH systems as you are though.

[Wolfie]

i was talking about MW as a system like AH, and with a system for byers i mean that you can see all prices, leading to much more undercutting then it did with the ffxi system. The fact that it is clunky and inconvenient to use well, i think we all know haha

FFXI's system placed everyone at a disadvantage. With no visible price and a history that spanned 10 transactions, item prices were extremely easy to manipulate and buyers got screwed. Sellers got screwed because all it took is for your item to be undercut by 1 gil, which you never saw, to ensure that your item never sold. Perfect examples of this are RR hairpins which doubled in prices during the weekends.

A "buyer system" and "seller system" are not mutually exclusive concepts; they're actually the same damn thing, because you can't have one without the other. If you make things hard to sell, then people will buy less. If you make items hard to buy, then it's no longer worth it to try to sell.

That is true to some degree, but the system ffxi had slowed this process down a lot.

It didn't. There were undercut wars all the time. The only thing that slowed the process down in FFXI is the fact that it was an already established game, with more or less a constant playerbase, capped at level 75 for years. The rate at which (consumable) items entered and left the economy remained the same for a large part of FFXI's life span. But go take a look at some high end luxury items, like Igqira Weskit. Its price steadily crashed to the point where the only way you could make a profit on the synth was if you HQ'ed. That's because once a Weskit entered the market, there was no way to destroy it; they were simply recycled over and over again when people got sick of playing BLM.

the 1 year i played aion the AH was a undercutting fest until it was almost empty!!! after server merges and trash mobs dropped golden gear the economy got flooded again. But crafted items were rare as hell since nobody bothered crafting,
people sold to npc. soulbinding dindt prevent that (even though the idea is very good imo).
And the fact that the prices are taken out permanently would only affect a new player who didnt watch the economy one bit. Everyone else knows the prices.

The price wars happened until prices stabilized. People are still consistently crafting Expert Noble _____ Shoes because everyone likes shoes with movement speed on them, and people are always making alts that need those boots. These items are rare in the same way FFXI's HQ items are rare; you need to HQ your synth to make gold gear.

Go take a look at Balaur Hearts and Boiling Balaur Blood. Prices have remained almost the same through the year that Aion's been around and they're still very hot items on the trade broker. Again, all of this has NOTHING TO DO with the method by which the items are being traded, and everything to do with the supply and consumption of these items.

I don't like wow, played the trial, so i wont bother, i did play aion, and like i posted before... it changed i dunno how it is now but it became more and more childish and i dont wanna even start with the community. Good for them if its better now. Still the system of ffxi imo is better. I might not be as omniscient if it comes to the mmo AH systems as you are though.

Fair enough, you're not experienced with this stuff. But trust me when I say that the most overwhelming factor in determining an item's price is its actual in-game worth, and not how it gets traded from one person to another.

[Anty]

FFXI's system placed everyone at a disadvantage. With no visible price and a history that spanned 10 transactions, item prices were extremely easy to manipulate and buyers got screwed. Sellers got screwed because all it took is for your item to be undercut by 1 gil, which you never saw, to ensure that your item never sold. Perfect examples of this are RR hairpins which doubled in prices during the weekends.

A "buyer system" and "seller system" are not mutually exclusive concepts; they're actually the same damn thing, because you can't have one without the other. If you make things hard to sell, then people will buy less. If you make items hard to buy, then it's no longer worth it to try to sell.




It didn't. There were undercut wars all the time. The only thing that slowed the process down in FFXI is the fact that it was an already established game, with more or less a constant playerbase, capped at level 75 for years. The rate at which (consumable) items entered and left the economy remained the same for a large part of FFXI's life span. But go take a look at some high end luxury items, like Igqira Weskit. Its price steadily crashed to the point where the only way you could make a profit on the synth was if you HQ'ed. That's because once a Weskit entered the market, there was no way to destroy it; they were simply recycled over and over again when people got sick of playing BLM.



The price wars happened until prices stabilized. People are still consistently crafting Expert Noble _____ Shoes because everyone likes shoes with movement speed on them, and people are always making alts that need those boots. These items are rare in the same way FFXI's HQ items are rare; you need to HQ your synth to make gold gear.

Go take a look at Balaur Hearts and Boiling Balaur Blood. Prices have remained almost the same through the year that Aion's been around and they're still very hot items on the trade broker. Again, all of this has NOTHING TO DO with the method by which the items are being traded, and everything to do with the supply and consumption of these items.





Fair enough, you're not experienced with this stuff. But trust me when I say that the most overwhelming factor in determining an item's price is its actual in-game worth, and not how it gets traded from one person to another.

you got some good points here, i might have experienced things a bit different, the blm body was very expensive a long time as far as i remember until blm got useless for most new added stuff and xp parties.

The soulbinding system is a very good way of keeping the markets from beeing flooded with the same items all over.
One should think about a way to implement this for several items perhaps.

And well for now... i just hope they replace the MW or give at least other options since its not just 1-2 min more then navigating through a proper AH system its like 20 times longer, selling, looking at prices, run back to the retainer etc. etc.
Its just not fun.

[Platinumstorm]

as of now like someone said already MW is for the buyers, not for the sellers. This is nice for the non-crafters or the people who only npc stuff. But in the end it will be like a lot of mmos with similar systems - AH aion etc. etc.

you see prices, people undercut, undercut (its an undercut fest already and we have only a few people playing, i dont wanna imagine more people playing it).

The more people undercut the more sellers/crafters won't bother crafting for the economy, only for themselves. People won't sell mats in the wards but npc them (already happening).

In the end the buyers had some cheap stuff at the first place but in the end the wards will be empty since nobody cares selling stuff there. This is most likely goin to happen sooner then most people think. Most mmo AH are empty 1 year after launch because of exactly this undercutting.

Haveing a similar system like in fxi - can be improved in some aspects, makes a seller market and keeps the economy more stable and people have a profit and WILL produce for the people who don't craft rather just for themselves.

No way, with an AH system you end up with one or two people forcing everyone out of the market. The best "seller's market" was actually the market ward with no price listing. You earned customers based on your consistency and their loyalty; not whether or not the price was 1 gil lower.

With the price search I've already been forced out of my main crafted items because I no longer found any reasonable profit in them. I now go around looking for little niches that aren't being used up at all, and then when someone does enter them and then sells their items for some pathetically low value, I leave.

Price search absolutely killed off profitability in dyes, for example. I don't even craft them now because there is so little of a profit margin.

Also FF11's auction house system is one of the worst "AH" systems that I know of in any MMO. I absolutely don't want that.

I believe that market wards have actually lost some of their viability with their improvements because you get forced into making niche items; rather than making a broader spectrum based on the ward you're selling in and the ability for people to just search explicitly for what they want. Previously, it would be easy to sell lots of different things that people found useful, but now don't even go to that ward because they're so categorized.

This means as a carpenter I've never made bows for sale after the recategorization because I had found my easiest and most effective profit margin making caster weapons; so I was relegated to the Spellcraft ward; where no one goes to find bows.

The other weird thing I find about the market wards post price listing is that people keep lowering their prices even though there isn't necessarily a demand for the item. In what I'm selling right now I sell one item at 100,000 gil. I made 4 of the item and sold two of them over a period of about 5 days or so. Lately, two people came in and posted the same item at 60,000; and both of them almost instantly lowered their prices to 50,000 because it didn't move instantly. This isn't because their prices are too high [I think I'm about 20k too high, and they're about 30k too low], but because of incredibly niche demand for item.

The market wards don't really work as is, but they can work; and they definitely bring in a more fun aspect for crafters.