Fall back and regroup: time for crafting autoleveller?

[Airlea]

If you don't want to gather, you sure as hell shouldn't be crafting. In fact, the only player who doesn't like to gather, but likes to mindlessly spam on crafting...is a cheater who isn't really there.

I don't like to gather, nor do I like to mindlessly spam on crafting. What I do enjoy is creating final products, particularly trying to HQ items for myself and friends. To get to that point, I had to do some of that mindless enter spamming.

So I can't stand gathering, but I do enjoy crafting quite a bit outside of the grind. To say that I sure as hell shouldn't be crafting because I don't enjoy gathering is a joke. You do realize that instead of gathering, you can farm on a battle class as well. That's another flaw to the system that SE is beginning to address, items gathered aren't exclusive to DoL.

Again, the accusations of cheating and botting need to end now. It's ridiculous and unfounded. Simply playing differently from you, preferring different activities from you, or having a different opinion than yours does not mean that someone is botting or cheating.

[Kiara]

Hi Peregrine, Xenor,

I'm not defending the current crafting system - I agree completely that hitting "ENTER" for 10,000 Times is a complete waste of HUMAN LIFE (>_<) - and it's not fun.

All I'm asking for is before we go to an Auto-Leveller, that SE try to actually design a Crafting System that's engaging and fun.

Xenor, you're right in that sure, the example I gave of Smelting Ore in a Forge, and then having to Mold the Ore, and then Polish the Final Product, that that would get boring after doing it for X# of times, but so is EVERYTHING in this game right now.

I've seen so many players in my Guildleve Parties who mash "1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1" (Light Attack) to kill a mob and continue. That's wasting Human Life as well on a boring, horrible Combat System that rewards a Player for hitting "1" over and over thousands of times.

Of course there's variations - using Weaponskills intelligently, Battle Regimens, etc. - but just watching people in my Guildleve Parties and they're doing the same monotonous thing over and over again.

But, Yoshida-san and Matsui-san are trying to revamp the Combat System... adding in Auto Attack, changing Battle Regimen (where we hopefully get something more skill-based like the Skillchain System from FF XI, or some Combo System from Chrono Trigger, etc.), and hopefully we'll see Positioning in Battle be a factor, and interesting Weaponskills to use at proper distances and in proper scenarios (a "Backstab" and "Evade"; a "Counterattack" etc.).

But right now? The Combat System is horrible and also mirrors hitting 1 Button over and over again.

I'm asking everyone is there not something to do to make Crafting an interesting, engaging Activity? Before we throw in the towel and just make it Auto-Levelling?

Let's say, to make a Jade Crook, a Carpenter would have to first, ply the base Stave from a raw Log. Then they have to Carve the final Shape from the basic rough shape they did earlier. Then Infuse the Crook with the Jade by another process, in a meaningful way, maybe it's using the Mouse / Keyboard / Gamepad to guide your Tools as you work the shape, etc. (just throwing out ideas), AND it gives MASSIVE SP for doing it, so it was LESS Repetitions, but MORE SP (more about doing some "engaging combat" so to speak with the Materials you got), would that not be something worth considering?

Also for the Blacksmith idea I mentioned earlier, I remember some more details that the great poster made on FF CORE (I wish I remember their name or could find the post). Paraphrased (and adding some ideas):

* Blacksmith Crafting *
I. Phase I - Smelting

• You have to Smelt down the raw metal you get, working an Iron Forge.
• You have to watch the Temperature of the Fire as it heats the Forge and manage it. Too Hot and it ruins the Metal, Too Cool of a Temperature also affects it adversely in some ways.
• There are various challenges you could have while managing the Forge.
• Perhaps you use Crafting "Weaponskills" to overcome the challenges (maybe the Forge is boiling over and you have to control it, etc.).

II. Phase II - Tempering Metal

• After finishing the first phase, you have to now pour the Metal out carefully and start to Temper and Work the Metal.
• Where you Strike and how often you Strike will affect the outcome of the synthesis.
• Maybe you accidentally over strike and bend the Metal wrong. You could use a Weaponskill (Crafting Skill) to help correct it, etc.

III. Phase III - Final Polish

• The final step is to Polish and Fine-Tune the Work you've done so far.
• Guiding your Tool to finely work the edges, sharpen, fine strike, etc.
• Again more challenges can appear where you use your Crafting Weaponskills to overcome the challenges can be used here.

End result could be MASSIVE SP and a feeling of accomplishment. The variety comes in the variables of each Phase (maybe different Temperatures for a "sweet spot", different challenges, multiple Boilings Over, a Crack / Fissure in the Metal during Phase II, etc.).

Of course, the reality of Square actually doing something like this is maybe zero, but if something like that (or some other fun, engaging idea gained enough steam), wouldn't that be worth fighting for?

Again, I'm not defending the current system (it's horribly boring and has zero skill), but before just making it Auto-Leveller, what about pushing Square to make a real Crafting System that was engaging?

Thanks.

[Bigglesworth]

nice post Kiara. I agree, I don't want them to throw in the towel either, nor will they.

[Okito_Musuko]

EVERYONE JUST STOP POSTING PEREGRINE IS BETTER THAN YOU ALL AND YOU CANT WIN!

she/he just picks out the bits she/he wants to make an arguement

[Peregrine]

I think autoleveller solves multiple problems at once while stimulating the economy, but if they want a crack at something else by all means. So long as they understand the point, and I think they do.

[weeble]

though i do agree with one thing that with the time it takes to reach 50 for normal people having botters and cheaters take away from it is a huge problem. i personally think it is the only real problem with any crafting in a game. crafting isn't very fun to begin with, i can't think of any idea that would make it fun outside of having to fight all your mobs for the mats yourself.

i've seen games where u have to learn moves,spells and all that stuff by clicking on learn and they all take a certain period of time, whether hours, days, weeks. if they use this system for crafting it can be kinda interesting, they can then break down all crafts into many many different things that u need to learn to finally get to end products and endgame things.

these 2 combined could be good, also maybe caps how many items for sale of each items u can have per week when u'r finally making items not for grinding would be cool too. specially with something that grinds u auto, that just means everyone will be a crafter either way. so caps and limits to things would be good. i think this idea of a cap on every item should be implemented even if no other changes. that way everyone isn't just spaming the crap out of things and ruining economy.

maybe a though, lol i'd be fine and dandy if they made every single thing in game rare/ex as in even junk is not tradable and everyone needs to do there own frigin work, from grinding mobs to the crafting.

again biggest problem though is being belittles by botters, it's a joke that someone is spaming 10-16hrs a day for a botter to come and undercut prices and get to cap faster then u while he's out living life.

[Xenor]

lol Peregrine you're wrong when you say gathering bots can't go from node to node on their own. These bots can set paths. I've seen it at the sea hare camp (the camp with 4 in one room and 3 round the corner). The dude had his bot clearing the 4 in the main area and then running to the other 3 and back. 100% wasn't a real player due to the way it was acting. Even saw it disengage from a mob and run after another one a few times.

I'm not sure if the gathering bot could create its own paths however for example after the initial nodes exhaust themselves. But if you gather in an area people rarely gather like Coerthas you could just use the 4 node trick to keep the same rotation going forever.

But I agree that GMs should be monitoring crap like that, it's way easy to spot a bot that has to move than one that stays rooted spamming enter.

Let's say, to make a Jade Crook, a Carpenter would have to first, ply the base Stave from a raw Log. Then they have to Carve the final Shape from the basic rough shape they did earlier. Then Infuse the Crook with the Jade by another process, in a meaningful way, maybe it's using the Mouse / Keyboard / Gamepad to guide your Tools as you work the shape, etc. (just throwing out ideas), AND it gives MASSIVE SP for doing it, so it was LESS Repetitions, but MORE SP (more about doing some "engaging combat" so to speak with the Materials you got), would that not be something worth considering?

I already have fun making finished items. To make a Jade Crook I have to use branches +3 that I get from botany, acid that I get when farming coral for crab bows and I have to get hold of spoken blood which is surprisingly hard. Then I've got to craft the other pieces. When I begin the main synth I've got to ensure I have the right skills set, use them at the right time and manage any unstable elements. I've also got to decide how much durability to keep. Of course some douche this week decided the Jade Crook market shouldn't exist and killed it but that's besides the point.

I agree grinding craft is the most boring thing ever. I've been doing it tonight and it feels like I'm not even playing the game. Between each standard click I can type half a sentence on these forums and I have the game and my browser windowed in a way that gives me quick access to the crafting window, half the screen for the browser and half for the game. Something needs to change but I don't want it to be any easier to get to 50.

[Peregrine]

lol Peregrine you're wrong when you say gathering bots can't go from node to node on their own. These bots can set paths. I've seen it at the sea hare camp (the camp with 4 in one room and 3 round the corner). The dude had his bot clearing the 4 in the main area and then running to the other 3 and back. 100% wasn't a real player due to the way it was acting. Even saw it disengage from a mob and run after another one a few times.

I'm not sure if the gathering bot could create its own paths however for example after the initial nodes exhaust themselves. But if you gather in an area people rarely gather like Coerthas you could just use the 4 node trick to keep the same rotation going forever.

But I agree that GMs should be monitoring crap like that, it's way easy to spot a bot that has to move than one that stays rooted spamming enter.



I already have fun making finished items. To make a Jade Crook I have to use branches +3 that I get from botany, acid that I get when farming coral for crab bows and I have to get hold of spoken blood which is surprisingly hard. Then I've got to craft the other pieces. When I begin the main synth I've got to ensure I have the right skills set, use them at the right time and manage any unstable elements. I've also got to decide how much durability to keep. Of course some douche this week decided the Jade Crook market shouldn't exist and killed it but that's besides the point.

I agree grinding craft is the most boring thing ever. I've been doing it tonight and it feels like I'm not even playing the game. Between each standard click I can type half a sentence on these forums and I have the game and my browser windowed in a way that gives me quick access to the crafting window, half the screen for the browser and half for the game. Something needs to change but I don't want it to be any easier to get to 50.

No, YOU are wrong. The paths the shard bots take are simplistic patterns meant to pick up and detect new selectable targets on their screen so they don't get stuck facing a wall with no targets. They can't run from node to node. You don't understand what the shard bots are trying to do. That it can move rooms is only a consequence of it hooking onto something. It doesn't work for gathering.

Some douche didn't decide the jade crook market shouldn't exist. That market never had a chance. It is by far the easiest spammable garbage HQ out there. YOU were going to run out of conjurers eventually. +3 or NPC. That is the ONLY endgame of a system that focuses on the things this one does. Like the devs said, redefine what you focus on. If you're a bubble riding crafter, or a best HQ of the best gear spammer, you're going to run out of market. You don't have a business plan. You have a golddigging boom and bust mentality. That's not crafting.

If they take cheap materials away from drone crafters, it'll be harder to get to 50. If they don't let everyone and their mother basically spam enter to their way to a basically free R50 craft, it'll be harder.

Autolevelling actually makes it harder to get to 50. Again, right now no one pays for materials, because crafters automatically count the cost of time it takes to turn them into something useful as a DISCOUNT on goods.

[TheVedis]

No, YOU are wrong. The paths the shard bots take are simplistic patterns meant to pick up and detect new selectable targets on their screen so they don't get stuck facing a wall with no targets. They can't run from node to node. You don't understand what the shard bots are trying to do. That it can move rooms is only a consequence of it hooking onto something. It doesn't work for gathering.

listen to him, he has first hand experience using these programs

[Drex]

If people are so scared about automatic levelling, a good compromise would be to be able to convert 2 hours of metal gathering into crafting sp in a half hour, not 3 hours, and guarantee hasty hands synths after certain levels. The odds of completing an iron nugget as a R50 smith by spamming enter is 100%. Not 92. Not 97. Guaranteed. Mimic that with hasty hands.

That is, silver javelin heads don't take 40 seconds a synth to NQ. They take 7 seconds.

Anything to remove the pretense that the time spent spamming enter to progress through crafting is a LEGITIMATE price challenge or difficulty, because it's not. It is making everything WORSE.

lol

almost all players would have 3-5 crafting classes at cap....even now there are too much multicapped crafters.

and since the 90% of the people have a Ls, that includes other crafters, can you please explain how that could be a demand and supply?

that will be no economy, crafters would craft only for own purposes.

Im ok with a "more fun" crafting system, but I want it tough.

I hope, that when they raise the lv cap (ex 100) you have to pick up only one, and the other crafting classes should have a lower cap (ex 60).

To be a doctor you need: patience, effort,time and will, obviusly, its not for everyone.

Immagine a world where everyone are: doctors, engineers of all kind, technicians...etc... there will be no society or at least not a modern society.... maybe a prehistoric and lonely kind of chaotic community.

I know, my english sucks.