Fall back and regroup: time for crafting autoleveller?

[Peregrine]

You sure do know a lot about bots

Better to know the biggest threat in the game than not know it.
Every player should know the current state of botting of their MMO.

[Peregrine]

So as opposed to people having 3 crafting classes like they have 3 battle classes, you propose that cheaters and drone spammers should only have that privilege.

Right. That makes sense.

Autolevelling wouldn't even make progression easier. It would make it more expensive and shunt time spent crafting as a cost to time doing other things to pay for it. Like intelligent crafting. Gathering. Leves.

Again, if there were an autoleveller, you wouldn't be able to afford to raise my crafts. Pick up a pickaxe or get out. I'm tired of seeing town crafters buy cheap as **** iron then just netflix the hell out of it for basically just the cost of shards.

Cause. Effect.
Crafting gets faster. Materials get more expensive. Thus, while you can craft fast if you could, you can't because you can't get your hands on mats to craft fast.

This is not even a difficult concept. It is not as bad as chicken littles make it out to be at all. The economy will mount a very nice response to attempt to keep things as they are. But now it'll just be...a better game.

[Gicker]

Well said Peregraine, I second.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

While I think auto-crafting could be a solution to the mindless spamming and that it would not destroy the game/economy as some people are freaking out about (just take WoW for exemple, auto-craft and the economy is fine), I think that I would rather have a more engaged crafting experience as described by Kiara and it awarding MASSIVE sp would make it just as good as auto-craft.

[Peregrine]

While I think auto-crafting could be a solution to the mindless spamming and that it would not destroy the game/economy as some people are freaking out about (just take WoW for exemple, auto-craft and the economy is fine), I think that I would rather have a more engaged crafting experience as described by Kiara and it awarding MASSIVE sp would make it just as good as auto-craft.

You can try. I don't think the devs have the time and energy to be wasting on alternate crafting levelling, and craftgrinding is the only thing keeping gathering remotely useful. Because crafting is so slow, gathering's already an oversupplied mess.

Plays right into the hands of cheaters and craft drones. When real players can't use what gatherers bring to town because it takes so painfully long, the only people who buy it are the people who can mindlessly plow it.

Whatever that MASSSIVE SP it, it had better take a mountain of materials.

I simply see no need to put more work in than you need to. No need for instances, events, new systems with systems with systems, and novel features when a simple autolevelling feature would suffice.

Give em a break. They're working too hard as it is.

I'm not an idealist. I'm a practical person who works within the bounds and limitations of this reality.
Let's be honest. A fun and engaging crafting system to replace the mindless spamming is impossible.

And if it is possible, Square Enix could use the money. Make it into its own game if it's that fun and engaging for that long and put it on the Iphone and droid.

This is reality. If you make crafting fun and engaging enough to last more than 100 hours, that's a phone app you can charge for. Not a free MMO aside.

This is the reality we live in. You can say a lot of things. That doesn't mean anything unless it can be done.

[Physic]

While I think auto-crafting could be a solution to the mindless spamming and that it would not destroy the game/economy as some people are freaking out about (just take WoW for exemple, auto-craft and the economy is fine), I think that I would rather have a more engaged crafting experience as described by Kiara and it awarding MASSIVE sp would make it just as good as auto-craft.

I would applaud a massive SP high difficulty or involvement craft system, but i dunno if thats what they want, they said making it easier, not harder, and at the end of the day, having to craft and insane amount of easy items is kind of foolish. from essentially 44 on, you have no choice but to do easy crafts, that you can probably just spam enter on. I can only imagine how tedious level 49 must be with only level 50 recipes at your disposal, so easy youd be foolish to hit anything but enter, and rewarding so little SP when you have the highest tnl ever.

i said before i think they either have to make it so easy that bots irrelevant, or mor complex so that bots fail, the response was that they want it to be easier and the real crafter game should be about merchanting, so i can only imagine that you can say goodbye to leveling needing much skill or knowledge, it kind of sucks that crafting will be an afterthought, but ehhh ill be able to make more cool gear, without having to blow your brains out leveling trash items for hours on end

[Sorel]

I'm sorry. I just can't buy into the notion that giving every crafter the tools to act like a crafting bot is a good idea. It might be me, but I only see that as making crafting in FFXIV worse. But that is only an opinion on my part.

Some people believe that everyone should have a gun, so that law-abiding citizens are always on equal footing with criminals. Others believe no one should have a gun, period ... and anyone who has a gun is automatically a criminal. Hard to say which philosophy is right.

[Peregrine]

I'm sorry. I just can't buy into the notion that giving every crafter the tools to act like a crafting bot is a good idea. It might be me, but I only see that as making crafting in FFXIV worse. But that is only an opinion on my part.

Some people believe that everyone should have a gun, so that law-abiding citizens are always on equal footing with criminals. Others believe no one should have a gun, period ... and anyone who has a gun is automatically a criminal. Hard to say which philosophy is right.

In a world full of people with guns, how do you spot the shooter?
They're the idiot who pulled their gun out first.

It would be fine. The cost of materials would quickly brake almost the entire progression speed of crafting. The people with 200 million gil already botcraft. They already have 4 50 crafts. The people without 200 million gil aren't going to be able to do much with the autoleveller.

Only thing you could argue is that crafting becomes more entertaining, so more people do it, and more people doing it is bad.
Can't defend a POS portion of the game forever by saying rare is good. Just because you can tolerate the mindlessness doesn't mean that's a good thing, you should be rewarded for it, and it should stay that way (because you benefit).

It shouldn't stay this way. I don't gather any more because every time I gather, I have 3.5 hours of mindless plowing to do afterwards and it's just stupid.

The only crafters that autoleveller would actually bring up are REAL ones to replace all the cheaters and drone spammers. Because honestly I can make HQ like nobody's business with my metal reserves and smiths. But the entire system is just...below me. So I quit. I'm a battlecrafter now. Some mindless drone spammer can make me something for pittance and piddles.

Crafting progression...spamming enter for 330 sp a synth, is low-caliber gameplay, and it is below caliber players. If crafting is to be run by caliber players, assistants should do the menial work that means nothing and simply must be done.

This is why you have assistants. Machines. Employees. Some things are below your skill set. Grinding sp on a craft is one of those things for most players, except the least skilled in the group. And for the least skilled, it's just an inevitability that programs replace you.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Yeah I know it's just idealistic to think they would come up with a more sophisticated crafting system. But like I said, auto-craft is fine even if I would prefer the more involved crafting.

That being said, I think that recipes for finished items/gears should be learned and purchased/gained from quests/drops and even make them non-tradable. That would stop bots I think, a bit... If you actually have to work for your recipes, at least you can make sure that the people crafting those gears/items did put effort in acquiring them.

[Xenor]

Peregrine you're just getting ridiculous with your claims now. Everyone with 200mil gil bots? Just because you don't make finished items doesn't mean everyone who does bots. Most serious crafters passed 100mil months ago and the ones with time to farm lots of HQ mats passed 200mil a while ago. It's not about botting, you can't bot +2 and +3 high end items. Time is the winner here and no one wants to make HQing easy to remove the time factor or crafting becomes worthless.

I really don't see the huge advantage of having lots of rank 50 crafts other than being able to make the parts yourself and rank 35-40 is high enough to do that. I play a lot and I simply don't have time to produce HQ items on CRP and GLD, nevermind more crafts if I had them at 50. CRP is a fulltime job. I don't bother with GLD because the jewellery market is trash and I don't have time to HQ bhujs.

Also bots can move anywhere they want. I wasn't talking about shard bots that sit in a cave. That sea hare camp requires movement that takes you down a path and then round a right turn. Yet people bot it. I think the reason you don't see gathering bots is because someone who bots can better spend their time botting crafts to 50 and buying gathered items which are nearly all trash.

Your stash of HQ ores is worthless so why is the market for items made with HQ nuggets more valid than the Jade Crook market? I can HQ3 any mat with NQ items. I've made mahogany lumber +3 a couple of times with NQ logs and that's the highest log. Mahogany log +3 or even +2 are rare as hell but they're worthless. Sure it's wrong that I can +3 with NQ mats just as easily as +3 mats but that's the way it is. It definitely needs changing if you want the gatherer to hold more power.

Jade crooks aren't as easy to make as you think. You have to be a botanist if you want a reasonable supply of walnut branch +3 for starters. Unless you farm them off efts but I imagine that would be painful. You have to farm hares for the acid but this is irrelevant because you get them farming bow mats, one mistake by SE. +3 spoken blood is rare as hell just because of how difficult it is to get chigoe mobs. Making HQ brass nuggets isn't exactly fun either.

The point is the market should exist for that effort. Problem is the game servers are empty so people aren't buying anything. I'm not lowering my prices as a result of that. They can sell when the playerbase jumps with 1.18. I'm not a greedy "NOW NOW NOW pls lty me sel first" crafter or gatherer. That's why the millions flood into my bank account while others struggle for every 100k.