The Letter is up

[Kiara]

Hi All,

There are some great points for and against Auto Attack on Archer.

One thing I was thinking of is that this is just one aspect of their New Combat System. It has yet to be fully revealed to any of us.

One of the things Yoshida-san has stated a few times is that he wants to bring Uniqueness to each Class. To make each one feel special and different and give a "Final Fantasy" feeling.

Certainly with Archers not getting Auto-Attack, that's something different right off the bat. While some players may enjoy having AA on, maybe that's not what Matsui-san and Yoshida-san are going for. We only see one tiny portion of what the New Combat System is like. Maybe Archer will be further developed to be a very shot selective, Burst Damage Class. They may get revised / new Weaponskills that alter the flow of Combat with different Arrow Shots.

We don't even know how fast every Class' TP is going to generate yet. They could generate at different speeds.

But at the end of the day, I think all of this arguing could be alleviated if they revealed more information. Maybe it was a mistake for the developers to only leak this tiny bit of information without showing us the whole (what the entire Archer Revision is, and in addition what the entire New Combat System is for All Classes). Only then, and after our own experience with hands-on playing, can we see if SE is just hacking / band-aiding this particular portion, or if there's a method to their "madness", right?

[Seikninkuru]

This looks freaking terrible. Looked incredibly boring. Thumbs down.

New WS looked cool, but the combat looks boring, uninspiring, and something I could play in dozens of other MMORPGs which are more polished, more content rich, and more populated.

[Wynn]

Keep in mind, we have to look at this like a beta product. It is going to take several patches before the battle system reaches its final state. What we see in the vid is just like phase 1.

[elreed]

Yeah but you're the kind of player who is against auto attack in general. There's no logical reason why archer should be excluded from auto attack over say a lancer. None at all.



Multi Shot will receive a cooldown whether Trifurcate exists or not. There's no other way to balance this when stamina isn't there. A lot of skills that rely on stamina as cost will be changed as a result. Expect Shrieker to be changed too. Currently it's 500 TP with a high stamina cost, it would simply be over powered if the stamina cost wasn't there. The list could go on, all classes will see these changes.



You're rank 34 dude. Yet you're accusing a guy who was 50 ARC before you even started playing of being a bandwagoner. You're a funny onion. Do continue. I'm sat here making wind crystals and bored as hell.




So you're basically saying archers aren't getting auto attack because of Multi Shot? Can you not think for one minute outside the box about how Multi Shot could be changed to work with auto attack? I've already said that they HAVE to add a cool down to it, more changes to it wouldn't hurt.

I don't want extra control over my arrows, what do you think I'm going to do every half second, ask myself "Ooooh should I press 1 now?! Hmm I don't know". I don't need any more control than the guy prodding it with his lance.

If you're playing your class right you won't be using Multi Shot for every damn attack. The stamina used is more than the cost of just hitting 1. Multi Shot works best at the end of a TP regimen when your stamina bar is full and if you're lucky you'll get it at the top of a light regimen. For the rest of the time you're hitting 1 and the odd ability, just like every other non-magic class.

Bind is a non-issue, the ARC skill for bind is useless and even if they make it useful you're rarely going to be using it anyway. Certainly not enough to justify removing auto attack. That lancer dude could just as easily break your bind. Or are you trying to tailor the game to solo play again?

Right we get it, you don't want auto attack, some lancer might not either. Therefore we should both be able to agree that a toggle is the best solution. Apparently in WoW right clicking a mob makes you auto attack it. Anything would work.




SE are adding a hate meter so you will know exactly how much hate you have compared to the tank. Managing hate on ARC is already easier than any other non-tank class due to Chameleon. With a hate meter that skill should ensure you never get hate as an ARC unless you pull off something big at the top of a regimen. That's going to happen regardless of auto attack because it's WS damage not basic attack.

Never do I have to put my bow away or stop tapping 1 during NM fights right now (except hate reset on buffalo where everyone stops DDing) because I manage my hate fine. Auto attack isn't going to make me attack more frequently than current so it's a non-issue.




FFXIV should not be FFXI-2. It should be taking the best bits from FFXI and building upon it, improving it and doing it better. Do you really want FFXIV to be a game that belongs in 2003?




WTF? I'm trolling because you don't want auto attack? Do elaborate.




I LOLed. How am I going to defend myself with a knife for example? If I'm getting that desperate I'll hit Quickstride and run. In reality I can currently solo rank 64 mobs (and probably higher) by shooting them with my bow. I've even backup tanked Dodore when the tank died. Getting hate isn't a life or death situation for ARC in this game like you make it out to be.




WTF are you using then? Because you're getting what, 250 TP every 5 or 6 actions? Your LS must love you with your input in battle regimens once every five minutes.

At the end of the day I'm using all my attack/accuracy buffs and other ARC skills at optimal times yet still find time to build TP by spamming 1. I don't know what you're doing wrong if you can't manage it.




Why do you do that? Light shot * 3 is more cost efficient than Multi shot * 2 + light shot to fire it. You should be stacking those attack buffs to your WSs in regimens rather than using them on standard attacks. The buffs will add more damage to your WS than they will your light shot and you will incap the mob faster.

On the rare occasion I have an attack buff and there's no regimen coming up I'll stack it with Trifurcate. I'll only use Multi Shot during a long fight if I have full stamina otherwise it's just not worth the cost.

I'm not even looking at it from a grinding or farming perspective where I'd always open with Multi Shot *2 with a buff because that's just filler gameplay. What matters is how you perform in a team against mobs that matter.




I'll look into it.

First of all ive known archers that really suck at their role, you must be one, why i use multishot and trifurcate a lot?, let me tell you is very simple really I DO MORE DAMAGE THAN DOING WEAPON SKILLS, hows that? well if you have done any NM you should know by now that while a ws best used with buffs and all does less damage than a well buffed multishot *3, with dodore for example i can make a well buffed ws of 270 even 400+ (in rare occasions) damage and with multishot ive done 210+ each shot periodically (190-250), i use ws on battle regimens or do multishot for battle regimens depending on the situation (defense debuff or incapacitation move) not every 5 min just as needed, i dont know about you but most of the time im doing more damage than anyone else in the party one thing you should try as DD all the time, i change arrows depending the NM we are fighting too.

The reason why i dont like auto attack on archers is because as it is now it works great, its not old gameplay i can actually take decisions in the middle of the fight, and take my own pace.

And yes he can be spamming a lot of skills before using light shots (heavy shots are not worth the stamina and are not stackable so i use that rarely), if you have ranked up several classes you should have buffing skills in your bars, and btw i gain a lot of TP in NM's fights and get most of the times criticals, i dunno if you dont have good accuracy or use low level arrows but you shouldnt need to use that much light shots with or without multishot to get enough TP, at better damage better TP you get check it out if you dont believe me.

You shouldnt make fun of people who hasnt the rank at 50 they might be playing better than you're doing now im a rank 50 archer and since rank 30 the job has most of the abbilities used at 50, im glad we didnt got dragged into AA would make bad players things easier.

[Nix]

What else do you expect to happen in this situation?

You shoot an arrow off in front of you toward nothing?
You shoot it over your shoulder as you run?
It just ignores you because "running" takes precedence over fighting in a battle?

You input a command to attack. It turns and attacks. How horrible!

Looks like you caught the tail end of my conversation! How nice of you to try and pick at it <3

The line of sight stuff was in reference to ARC auto attack and bind soloing, but if you read back a few pages you'd see that~

I'm not saying it was bad that you turn around, not at all! (again if you'd taken the time to read everything else you'd see that too.)

I'm sure you've had a hell of a slow day pumpkin so I'll go easy on ya

The whole thing was pretty much:
"AA would screw ARC soloing"
"Not if you could turn and run, break line of sight (like in XI and be unable to fire"
"Can't do that in XIV because each attack makes you face the mob"


There!

[Rentahamster]

This is my vision for Archers, and hopefully Ranger job if it comes:

Regarding the attack itself
1. Light Shot is removed and becomes Ranged Auto Attack.
2. Ranged Auto Attack consumes Ammo, as with stacking 999xarrows and Refill, ammo is not much of a concern.
3. Ranged Auto Attack speed is constant, TP gains constant per second, but Damage scale with weapons.
4. Ranged Auto Attack removes the need to spam normal attacks to build TP.
5. Multishot, Trifurcate are still in the game, but only operate with Heavy Shot or other basic ranged attack (not TP based)
6. Buffs such as Raging Strike, Ferocity, Hawk's Eye, etc. are not consumed by Ranged Auto Attack.


Regarding CC targets there are different options
1. Let players use current mechanics to turn away from mob, disengage or unselect target.
2. Code in that CC targets are unselected by all attacking players.
3. Code in that CC targets get animation time to give players cushion for option 1 above.


We end up with the same result as we have now, but without the need to spam Light/Heavy shot to build TP.

This is a reasonable and sound proposal. Especially the fix for multishot (#5)

[Physic]

This is a reasonable and sound proposal. Especially the fix for multishot (#5)

how is that a fix? thats exactly how multi shot works now, other than being able to be used with light shot.

CC fixes turn away? that is an archaic and bad design. Though with AA they really should have an option to not AA. i guess the option is to select another mob, but what if there is no mob to select. It really sounds bad. they should just have made AA a button you toggle on and off.

the dudes style of playing is his by choice, and i wont tell him to play the job a different way, but not using basic attacks on archer is a very real, and very effective playstyle. so why should every one play his style, when with current AA plans allow his playing style and theirs, and a new playing style.

[AlexiaKidd]

I thought they already said that Archer would not have ranged auto attack firing arrows. This leads me to believe it will be the same as FFXI where we will have a close range weapon like a knife for auto attack and then use our bows as normal with ranged attack.

[Rentahamster]

how is that a fix? thats exactly how multi shot works now, other than being able to be used with light shot.

The fix is so that auto attack doesn't waste your multishot or buffs. That way you can have both auto attack, and be able to use multishot the same way you do now.

CC fixes turn away? that is an archaic and bad design. Though with AA they really should have an option to not AA. i guess the option is to select another mob, but what if there is no mob to select. It really sounds bad. they should just have made AA a button you toggle on and off.

#1 usually the mob you are trying to sleep/stun/bind is not the mob you are currently attacking anyway. The most common scenario is crowd controlling links and adds.

But, if you need to bind the current mob...

#2 You don't have to change target. Just press the cancel button twice on controller, or Esc key once on the keyboard and you drop your current target.

#3 Yes, a AA on/off toggle would be nice too.

the dudes style of playing is his by choice, and i wont tell him to play the job a different way, but not using basic attacks on archer is a very real, and very effective playstyle. so why should every one play his style, when with current AA plans allow his playing style and theirs, and a new playing style.

With Takahime's fixes, you'd still have your playstyle even with AA. It's not as different as you think it is.

[kukurumei]

Why must you guys make multshot or any skill for that matter so complicated? what's so "special" about multishot it can be dumb down or changed like any other skill.

really arcs... prissy because their reign might be over.

FYI FF14 isn't the first game with an archer or range attacker for class. It'll work, easily.

Heck, why are we even talking about "playstyle"? The playstyle is an abomination, that we wanted change from day 1.

That's the goal, not the roadblock.