The Letter is up

[Xenor]

You apparently never played FFXI. It worked fine then and it will work fine now. RELAX BROSEPH.

I did play XI but I didn't get round to levelling up ranger. I don't see why RNG in XI shouldn't have had auto attack either. Then again ammo in that game wasn't exactly cheap.

I'm sure only people who played RNG in XI will be happy that ARC in XIV can't auto attack with a bow.

Gladiators, conjurers and thaumaturges have an off-hand weapon... a shield.

The offhand weapon slot is a good place for an archer to put a handaxe or a knife ( neither of which is currently associated with another class- to be perfectly clear, a knife is not a dagger ).

But seriously, who is going to use that handaxe or knife? I'll be shooting arrows, why am I going to run into the mob's AoE range and start poking it with a knife? Can you ever imagine a situation where an archer will be invited to a party to use a handaxe over their bow? Or a handaxe over a marauder with a great axe? The only time you'll use it is when you run out of arrows, and if you run out during any situation that matter then you're not playing your job right.

I for one am perfectly ok with not having auto attack on my archer's bow attacks. Now I am no longer worried about multishot going the way of the dodo.

They could have easily changed Multishot to an ability that makes your next shot shoot three arrows instead of one. It's going to get nerfed anyway because its only cost was stamina and without stamina you'd be spamming it if a cooldown isn't added.

I'm getting bored of archer anyway, think I'll be going THM main after 1.18 until they fix ARC. Right now I can imagine playing ARC being twice the job it currently it. You run up close to poke the mob with a knife for TP, you run back out to shoot, then you run back in etc. In out in out, do the hokey kokey. Or you can sit back hammering away at your 1 key between WSs as you do now.

Still no one has answered my question on why everyone made the developers spend months on auto attack when it appears no one actually wants it when it's here.

[Wynn]

I'm sure only people who played RNG in XI will be happy that ARC in XIV can't auto attack with a bow.

Nope. I didn't/don't play a ranger in XI and I'm perfectly happy to not have auto attack on my favorite XIV class. Don't speak in absolutes, you will always be wrong. (See what I did thar? :P )

They could have easily changed Multishot to an ability that makes your next shot shoot three arrows instead of one. It's going to get nerfed anyway because its only cost was stamina and without stamina you'd be spamming it if a cooldown isn't added.

This already exists, which you should know being level 50 archer, it is called Trifurcate. I'm also ok with it getting a cooldown. Many archers spam attack too much anyway and take hate when they shouldn't be. Since I am not one of them, a cool down won't impact me.

I'm getting bored of archer anyway, think I'll be going THM main after 1.18 until they fix ARC.

Sweet. I'm kinda tired of everyone bandwagoning on my class simply cause it is OP right now. Maybe this will make people move on to another class and I can look forward to being the only archer in the party again.

Still no one has answered my question on why everyone made the developers spend months on auto attack when it appears no one actually wants it when it's here.

Dunno, you'd have to ask them.

[Shikyo]

Nope. I didn't/don't play a ranger in XI and I'm perfectly happy to not have auto attack on my favorite XIV class. Don't speak in absolutes, you will always be wrong. (See what I did thar? :P )



This already exists, which you should know being level 50 archer, it is called Trifurcate. I'm also ok with it getting a cooldown. Many archers spam attack too much anyway and take hate when they shouldn't be. Since I am not one of them, a cool down won't impact me.



Sweet. I'm kinda tired of everyone bandwagoning on my class simply cause it is OP right now. Maybe this will make people move on to another class and I can look forward to being the only archer in the party again.




Dunno, you'd have to ask them.

what is your point you seemed to be arguing for no reason at all.
lots will play rng guy how can you bandwagon jump in a video game if you like the class you will play rather others consider it good or not, if you dont you wont.

[Wynn]

what is your point you seemed to be arguing for no reason at all.
lots will play rng guy how can you bandwagon jump in a video game if you like the class you will play rather others consider it good or not, if you dont you wont.

I could say the exact same thing about your post, which is delicious in and of itself.

[Shikyo]

I could say the exact same thing about your post, which is delicious in and of itself.

Do I know you? /ignor >.>

[Xenor]

Nope. I didn't/don't play a ranger in XI and I'm perfectly happy to not have auto attack on my favorite XIV class. Don't speak in absolutes, you will always be wrong. (See what I did thar? :P )

Yeah but you're the kind of player who is against auto attack in general. There's no logical reason why archer should be excluded from auto attack over say a lancer. None at all.

This already exists, which you should know being level 50 archer, it is called Trifurcate. I'm also ok with it getting a cooldown. Many archers spam attack too much anyway and take hate when they shouldn't be. Since I am not one of them, a cool down won't impact me.

Multi Shot will receive a cooldown whether Trifurcate exists or not. There's no other way to balance this when stamina isn't there. A lot of skills that rely on stamina as cost will be changed as a result. Expect Shrieker to be changed too. Currently it's 500 TP with a high stamina cost, it would simply be over powered if the stamina cost wasn't there. The list could go on, all classes will see these changes.

Sweet. I'm kinda tired of everyone bandwagoning on my class simply cause it is OP right now. Maybe this will make people move on to another class and I can look forward to being the only archer in the party again.

You're rank 34 dude. Yet you're accusing a guy who was 50 ARC before you even started playing of being a bandwagoner. You're a funny onion. Do continue. I'm sat here making wind crystals and bored as hell.

why is it so hard to imagine archers wanting to have control of there arrows more than auto attack would allow them? Being able to nock a specific number of arrow to increase damage but not steal hate or to nock to max to finish off a mob before a lethal WS at low health.

What about Bind? Why give them a skill they would automatically break themselves? Archers are dependant on positioning, giving them a meele option would be mainly curcumstancial like when it's not possible to move far back enough to use arrows effectively such as in a small area with multiple agressive monsters. People are in a uproar over nothing.

It's downright hillarious. People are suddenly acting like pressing 1 to attack is a chore now when we have been doing it for months. People haven't even asked obvious questions like.

1. Will Archers attacks be more powerfull at range to compensate for the "Possibly" slower pace of combat for them.

2. What will be the "cooldown" timer on our basic attacks?

3. Will we get more skills that require the abillity to choose when we attack "IE: more charge style skills"

Nope everyone is like "WAAAAAH I'm not part of the AA update" even when you are, the abolition of the stamina system will be a boon to archers just as much as anyone else. Archers who decide they want to meele all the time will find no place in parties and the cycle of darwinism will take effect. Don't get mad when you have no idea how the new system will actually effect you. If anything this was done to make sure Archers don't get nerfed with skills like Multi-shot. I'd rather have control over how many arrows I nock instead of converting it to a random WS.

So you're basically saying archers aren't getting auto attack because of Multi Shot? Can you not think for one minute outside the box about how Multi Shot could be changed to work with auto attack? I've already said that they HAVE to add a cool down to it, more changes to it wouldn't hurt.

I don't want extra control over my arrows, what do you think I'm going to do every half second, ask myself "Ooooh should I press 1 now?! Hmm I don't know". I don't need any more control than the guy prodding it with his lance.

If you're playing your class right you won't be using Multi Shot for every damn attack. The stamina used is more than the cost of just hitting 1. Multi Shot works best at the end of a TP regimen when your stamina bar is full and if you're lucky you'll get it at the top of a light regimen. For the rest of the time you're hitting 1 and the odd ability, just like every other non-magic class.

Bind is a non-issue, the ARC skill for bind is useless and even if they make it useful you're rarely going to be using it anyway. Certainly not enough to justify removing auto attack. That lancer dude could just as easily break your bind. Or are you trying to tailor the game to solo play again?

Right we get it, you don't want auto attack, some lancer might not either. Therefore we should both be able to agree that a toggle is the best solution. Apparently in WoW right clicking a mob makes you auto attack it. Anything would work.

What makes them different is that Hate control and positioning is far more important to Archers hence being able to remain locked onto your target while cooling off your emnity or knocking arrows for a large attack your not constantly garnering hate to pull off the tank. It's not as large an issue when the marauder draws hate because he is still goin to be within meele range of the monster.

From previous dev comments Mob ranged attacks may be going the way of the Dodo, and the last thing I want is archers blaming auto attack as to why they are ping-ponging the mob between them and the tank. Much like mages, Archers should be far more concerned about positioning than they are auto attack.

Thats my opinion though, it's far beyond multishot and bind.

SE are adding a hate meter so you will know exactly how much hate you have compared to the tank. Managing hate on ARC is already easier than any other non-tank class due to Chameleon. With a hate meter that skill should ensure you never get hate as an ARC unless you pull off something big at the top of a regimen. That's going to happen regardless of auto attack because it's WS damage not basic attack.

Never do I have to put my bow away or stop tapping 1 during NM fights right now (except hate reset on buffalo where everyone stops DDing) because I manage my hate fine. Auto attack isn't going to make me attack more frequently than current so it's a non-issue.

if you dont like how archer playes just dont play archer, imo this is final fantasy and this move follows in the steps of its mmo origins which is XI so it just seems perfectly fitting to me.
I was high lvl rng and loved the style in that ff so I wouldnt expect archer in this FF to be any other way.

FFXIV should not be FFXI-2. It should be taking the best bits from FFXI and building upon it, improving it and doing it better. Do you really want FFXIV to be a game that belongs in 2003?

>.> that was a accident i ment it seemed Xenor was trolling
I agree with you 100% =P

WTF? I'm trolling because you don't want auto attack? Do elaborate.

The purpose of giving archers a melee autoattack is to give them some means of defending themselves when the mob loses bind and charges up close.

I LOLed. How am I going to defend myself with a knife for example? If I'm getting that desperate I'll hit Quickstride and run. In reality I can currently solo rank 64 mobs (and probably higher) by shooting them with my bow. I've even backup tanked Dodore when the tank died. Getting hate isn't a life or death situation for ARC in this game like you make it out to be.

lol if that's how you play archer you must be one sorry archer. Here's how I play and you can use your imagination to fill in what abilities are where.

2 2 3 4 5 1 6 (maybe 7 if TP) 8 3 1 2 2 (4 or 5 if ready) 1 [repeat]

Look at all the 1s I have in there. All three of them. Play another job, dood.

WTF are you using then? Because you're getting what, 250 TP every 5 or 6 actions? Your LS must love you with your input in battle regimens once every five minutes.

At the end of the day I'm using all my attack/accuracy buffs and other ARC skills at optimal times yet still find time to build TP by spamming 1. I don't know what you're doing wrong if you can't manage it.

I dont really use that much light shots to build tp, i use multishots, and most of the times i get to use 7-9 different skills before i get back to a light shot, in my opinion archer is the only job that worked correctly for me, i really was against autoattack for archers and im glad it doesnt range AA..

Why do you do that? Light shot * 3 is more cost efficient than Multi shot * 2 + light shot to fire it. You should be stacking those attack buffs to your WSs in regimens rather than using them on standard attacks. The buffs will add more damage to your WS than they will your light shot and you will incap the mob faster.

On the rare occasion I have an attack buff and there's no regimen coming up I'll stack it with Trifurcate. I'll only use Multi Shot during a long fight if I have full stamina otherwise it's just not worth the cost.

I'm not even looking at it from a grinding or farming perspective where I'd always open with Multi Shot *2 with a buff because that's just filler gameplay. What matters is how you perform in a team against mobs that matter.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean your a bad person or an idiot.

I'll look into it.

[Jynx]

Bah~ forum ate my post. Lets just say your post overall brings up some perfectly good points for allowing AA on Archers, while it may not be my idea it does point out some issues that Archers might have with not having it.

I'm a bit more "On the fence" with the issue than I was previously, but I'm still leaning towards keeping it off for Archers mainly due to "Ping-ponging" issues. The hate meter "Totally forgot about it" does remove alot of the need to be concerned but SE has also stated they will be changing hate generation formulas as well. So I'm still concerned that the new system might make Archers a more prime target to mobs even with a competent tank, considering Archers are one of the highest DPS classes available right now.

I'll look into it.

I'll be sure to pass this on to the dev team.

[elreed]

Yeah but you're the kind of player who is against auto attack in general. There's no logical reason why archer should be excluded from auto attack over say a lancer. None at all.



Multi Shot will receive a cooldown whether Trifurcate exists or not. There's no other way to balance this when stamina isn't there. A lot of skills that rely on stamina as cost will be changed as a result. Expect Shrieker to be changed too. Currently it's 500 TP with a high stamina cost, it would simply be over powered if the stamina cost wasn't there. The list could go on, all classes will see these changes.



You're rank 34 dude. Yet you're accusing a guy who was 50 ARC before you even started playing of being a bandwagoner. You're a funny onion. Do continue. I'm sat here making wind crystals and bored as hell.




So you're basically saying archers aren't getting auto attack because of Multi Shot? Can you not think for one minute outside the box about how Multi Shot could be changed to work with auto attack? I've already said that they HAVE to add a cool down to it, more changes to it wouldn't hurt.

I don't want extra control over my arrows, what do you think I'm going to do every half second, ask myself "Ooooh should I press 1 now?! Hmm I don't know". I don't need any more control than the guy prodding it with his lance.

If you're playing your class right you won't be using Multi Shot for every damn attack. The stamina used is more than the cost of just hitting 1. Multi Shot works best at the end of a TP regimen when your stamina bar is full and if you're lucky you'll get it at the top of a light regimen. For the rest of the time you're hitting 1 and the odd ability, just like every other non-magic class.

Bind is a non-issue, the ARC skill for bind is useless and even if they make it useful you're rarely going to be using it anyway. Certainly not enough to justify removing auto attack. That lancer dude could just as easily break your bind. Or are you trying to tailor the game to solo play again?

Right we get it, you don't want auto attack, some lancer might not either. Therefore we should both be able to agree that a toggle is the best solution. Apparently in WoW right clicking a mob makes you auto attack it. Anything would work.




SE are adding a hate meter so you will know exactly how much hate you have compared to the tank. Managing hate on ARC is already easier than any other non-tank class due to Chameleon. With a hate meter that skill should ensure you never get hate as an ARC unless you pull off something big at the top of a regimen. That's going to happen regardless of auto attack because it's WS damage not basic attack.

Never do I have to put my bow away or stop tapping 1 during NM fights right now (except hate reset on buffalo where everyone stops DDing) because I manage my hate fine. Auto attack isn't going to make me attack more frequently than current so it's a non-issue.




FFXIV should not be FFXI-2. It should be taking the best bits from FFXI and building upon it, improving it and doing it better. Do you really want FFXIV to be a game that belongs in 2003?




WTF? I'm trolling because you don't want auto attack? Do elaborate.




I LOLed. How am I going to defend myself with a knife for example? If I'm getting that desperate I'll hit Quickstride and run. In reality I can currently solo rank 64 mobs (and probably higher) by shooting them with my bow. I've even backup tanked Dodore when the tank died. Getting hate isn't a life or death situation for ARC in this game like you make it out to be.




WTF are you using then? Because you're getting what, 250 TP every 5 or 6 actions? Your LS must love you with your input in battle regimens once every five minutes.

At the end of the day I'm using all my attack/accuracy buffs and other ARC skills at optimal times yet still find time to build TP by spamming 1. I don't know what you're doing wrong if you can't manage it.




Why do you do that? Light shot * 3 is more cost efficient than Multi shot * 2 + light shot to fire it. You should be stacking those attack buffs to your WSs in regimens rather than using them on standard attacks. The buffs will add more damage to your WS than they will your light shot and you will incap the mob faster.

On the rare occasion I have an attack buff and there's no regimen coming up I'll stack it with Trifurcate. I'll only use Multi Shot during a long fight if I have full stamina otherwise it's just not worth the cost.

I'm not even looking at it from a grinding or farming perspective where I'd always open with Multi Shot *2 with a buff because that's just filler gameplay. What matters is how you perform in a team against mobs that matter.




I'll look into it.

First of all ive known archers that really suck at their role, you must be one, why i use multishot and trifurcate a lot?, let me tell you is very simple really I DO MORE DAMAGE THAN DOING WEAPON SKILLS, hows that? well if you have done any NM you should know by now that while a ws best used with buffs and all does less damage than a well buffed multishot *3, with dodore for example i can make a well buffed ws of 270 even 400+ (in rare occasions) damage and with multishot ive done 210+ each shot periodically (190-250), i use ws on battle regimens or do multishot for battle regimens depending on the situation (defense debuff or incapacitation move) not every 5 min just as needed, i dont know about you but most of the time im doing more damage than anyone else in the party one thing you should try as DD all the time, i change arrows depending the NM we are fighting too.

The reason why i dont like auto attack on archers is because as it is now it works great, its not old gameplay i can actually take decisions in the middle of the fight, and take my own pace.

And yes he can be spamming a lot of skills before using light shots (heavy shots are not worth the stamina and are not stackable so i use that rarely), if you have ranked up several classes you should have buffing skills in your bars, and btw i gain a lot of TP in NM's fights and get most of the times criticals, i dunno if you dont have good accuracy or use low level arrows but you shouldnt need to use that much light shots with or without multishot to get enough TP, at better damage better TP you get check it out if you dont believe me.

You shouldnt make fun of people who hasnt the rank at 50 they might be playing better than you're doing now im a rank 50 archer and since rank 30 the job has most of the abbilities used at 50, im glad we didnt got dragged into AA would make bad players things easier.

[Xenor]

First of all ive known archers that really suck at their role, you must be one, why i use multishot and trifurcate a lot?, let me tell you is very simple really I DO MORE DAMAGE THAN DOING WEAPON SKILLS, hows that? well if you have done any NM you should know by now that while a ws best used with buffs and all does less damage than a well buffed multishot *3, with dodore for example i can make a well buffed ws of 270 even 400+ (in rare occasions) damage and with multishot ive done 210+ each shot periodically (190-250), i use ws on battle regimens or do multishot for battle regimens depending on the situation (defense debuff or incapacitation move) not every 5 min just as needed, i dont know about you but most of the time im doing more damage than anyone else in the party one thing you should try as DD all the time, i change arrows depending the NM we are fighting too.

The reason why i dont like auto attack on archers is because as it is now it works great, its not old gameplay i can actually take decisions in the middle of the fight, and take my own pace.

And yes he can be spamming a lot of skills before using light shots (heavy shots are not worth the stamina and are not stackable so i use that rarely), if you have ranked up several classes you should have buffing skills in your bars, and btw i gain a lot of TP in NM's fights and get most of the times criticals, i dunno if you dont have good accuracy or use low level arrows but you shouldnt need to use that much light shots with or without multishot to get enough TP, at better damage better TP you get check it out if you dont believe me.

You shouldnt make fun of people who hasnt the rank at 50 they might be playing better than you're doing now im a rank 50 archer and since rank 30 the job has most of the abbilities used at 50, im glad we didnt got dragged into AA would make bad players things easier.

If you can only manage 270 WS damage on Dodore with rare 400s then you're clearly doing it wrong. Not me, you. My record is closer to 2000 with a fully buffed Quick Nock.

You don't get to count your entire Multi Shot buff damage as damage because during the time and stamina you've spent fully buffing up your Multi Shot for 600 I've done 4 light shots for 400 and still have my buffs which will make my WS do 1000 instead of 500 or 2000 instead of 1000 in the case of Quick Nock.

You're doing it all wrong if you're relying on Multi Shot for damage mid-fight.

Trifurcate on the other hand is instant nocked arrows. It should be used every time it's up with a Raging Strike at the top of a lights regimen to max its potential (and ensure your team gets that regimen to stick).

I could 100% guarantee that if you were on Wutai and given the opportunity that I would out-damage you on Dodore or any NM. I've been a 50 ARC since January, I know its stengths and weaknesses when it comes to maximising damage.

You're probably one of those ARCs who keep spamming Bloodletter and over-writing the debuff that's already on the mob meaning you never get that -500 when it wears off. Of course you'll deny it.

You guys can whine and insult each other all you want, I've yet to see a single one of you provide a good reason for having ranged auto-attack. Then again I have to keep in mind which forum I'm posting in. Almost feels like I'm on a radical christian forum by the types of crazy narrow minded posts I've been reading.

Auto attack isn't needed for any class if we use your narrow minded view that no reason is ever good enough. Clearly, auto attack is something many people have requested and that's a good enough reason for its implementation to most people. If it's not good enough for you then get back to that radical Christian forum.

[Demacia]

If you can only manage 270 WS damage on Dodore with rare 400s then you're clearly doing it wrong. Not me, you. My record is closer to 2000 with a fully buffed Quick Nock.

You don't get to count your entire Multi Shot buff damage as damage because during the time and stamina you've spent fully buffing up your Multi Shot for 600 I've done 4 light shots for 400 and still have my buffes which will make my WS do 1000 instead of 500 or 2000 instead of 1000 in the case of Quick Nock.

You're doing it all wrong if you're relying on Multi Shot for damage mid-fight.

Trifurcate on the other hand is instant nocked arrows. It should be used every time it's up with a Raging Strike at the top of a lights regimen to max its potential (and ensure your team gets that regimen to stick).

I could 100% guarantee that if you were on Wutai and given the opportunity that I would out-damage you on Dodore or any NM. I've been a 50 ARC since January, I know its stengths and weaknesses when it comes to maximising damage.

You're probably one of those ARCs who keep spamming Bloodletter and over-writing the debuff that's already on the mob meaning you never get that -500 when it wears off. Of course you'll deny it.

Aw yeah you show that guy your massive FFXIV e-peen. Mad respect dog.