WAR > PLD

[Kitru]

PLD hate is back loaded into Halone, if you are starting your main generating combo late, while the WAR starts his early on you, then you'll be playing catch up.

It's the exact same true with a WAR tank, except with Butcher's Block instead of Rage of Halone. In fact, a PLD is going to have the advantage at the start because of their 20% damage debuff compared to WAR's 25%. On top of that, unlike PLD which can blow their damage buff right off the bat, for a WAR, because of Wrath and Maim, it's actually best for them to wait until after 2 full rotations before activating their damage buffs (Unchained, Berserk, Internal Release). WAR *could* Infuriate>Unchained>Berserk immediately, but it generates less enmity than delaying it. In *that* case, WAR is going to be hardcore frontloaded compared to PLD if they immediately go into BB spam but will be behind until shortly after their first BB is they delay the BB combo for Maim.

As such, if a PLD and equally geared WAR are both competing for aggro, the PLD is pretty much guaranteed to have aggro for the first 10-13 GCDs (pull + 3-4 full combos) unless the WAR is going straight up balls-to-the-wall from the beginning instead of trying to optimize over time. Even then, PLD would still pull ahead right around when FoF was ending because of the Pacification. WAR and PLD are neck and neck on enmity generation and, with buffs factored in, PLD actually has a slight advantage thanks to the Berserk Pacification.

The reason that the OP is losing is still most likely what you're saying: Flash is *horrible* ST enmity generation. You actually get more out of an uncombo'd Halone (Flash is ~495, Halone is 500).

[Abigs]

snip~

BS

assuming equal gear and skill pally cannot outdo warriors in enmity.. do remember than warriors auto attacks do more damage than that of pally.. and BB has 20 more potency than halone (20 is small but do remember both skills have 5x modifier on enmity).. also wrath stacks contribute (albeit marginally thru crits) to enmity and with 5 stacks you gain access to steel cyclone (yes you sacrifice IB for it but its only an option if your pally is dumb enough to compete on aggro)

[Kitru]

do remember than warriors auto attacks are almost double that of pally..

Has absolutely no effect upon relative enmity generation. Both WAR and PLD get 83.33 potency per GCD from their auto-attacks. WAR might hit twice as hard, but a PLD is going to hit twice as often.

and BB has 20 more potency than halone (20 is small but do remember both skills have 5x modifier on enmity)..

Defiance applies a 25% damage debuff compared to Shield Oath's 20%. If you ignore the damage buffs and just assume BB spam compared to RoH spam, PLD wins: RoH generates 1640 enmity potency (.8 * (150 + 200 * 3 + 260 * 5); ignoring stance enmity buff since it's the same for both) and BB generates 1612.5 (.75 * (150 + 200 * 3 + 280 *5)). This doesn't factor in the off-GCD attacks that PLD gets, which adds another 40 enmity potency/GCD (25 from each * .8); Brutal Swing only adds ~4.7 (.75 * 50 / 8).

If you factor in Maim, you have to recognize that you're sacrificing 1/3rd of your rotation to a low enmity combo (you can ignore SE because PLD would benefit from it just as much), which means that, while you're getting 20% more out of everything, you're only generating 590-610 (150 + 190 + 250-or-270) one-third of the time. As such, WAR would be generating 1644 enmity potency/GCD*3 (1.2 * .75 * (2 * ((150 + 200 * 3 + 280 *5) + (150 + 190 + 250))) / 3). PLD still wins because of off-GCD benefits.

On top of this, FoF is stronger than Unchained + Berserk and has no use limitation (Unchained requires 5 Wrath stacks and Berserk can only be used when you can afford to be pacified). FoF provides a straight up 10% increase to damage over time (.3 * 30 / 90); Unchained is, at most, a 5.5% increase (.33 * 20 / 120) and Berserk is a ~3.54% increase to damage dealt ((20 * .4 - 5 * .75) / 120) but only ~3.05% increase to enmity generated ((20 * .4 - 5 * (1 - .132)) / 120); auto-attacks are ~25% of total damage but only 13.2% of enmity generation), which means that WAR gets a total of a ~8.7% increase to total enmity generation from their CDs (1.055 * 1.0305). Before you say anything about it, you actually get more total damage contribution out of using Berserk on the 120 second interval because you're increase the functional CD by 33% but increasing total damage while active by 33% because of Unchained which makes the two equal out; it ends up contributing more because you're getting 5 secs of Pacification every 120 seconds instead of every 90 seconds.

As to Wrath stacks, if you assume 20 seconds to build up to 5 stacks (20 seconds averaging 2.5 stacks) and 10 second of saving the stacks (30 seconds use cycle on Inner Beast), you amount to a 6.67% increase in crit chance ((20 * 2.5 * 2 + 10 * 5 * 2) / 30). At a 10% base crit chance (which means 50% more damage), that's a 3.17% increase in total damage ((1 + .5 * .1667) / (1 + .5 * 1.1)).

Put it all together and you get

PLD:
(1640 / 3 + 40 ) * .8 * 1.1 = 516.27 enmity pot/GCD
WAR:
(1644 / 3 + 4.7) * .75 * 1.0317 * 1.055 * 1.0305 = 464.95 enmity pot/GCD

WAR can actually eke out more than that by leveraging the times on CD (e.g. Berserk lasts 20 seconds, which is 266% of a 3 part combo; if you activate Berserk after Heavy Swing, you get more than you would under the assumption of perfectly averaged values), but it's not going to 11% more total enmity. If you want to call BS on me, do the math first because I've already done it multiple times.

5 stacks you gain access to steel cyclone (yes you sacrifice IB for it but its only an option if your pally is dumb enough to compete on aggro)

Using Steel Cyclone for additional enmity is going to provide a reasonable enmity benefit (SC is an effective 266.66 potency hit for, presumably, 5x enmity, or 1333.33 enmity; assume a use cycle of 9 GCDs, 8 GCDs to generate 5 stacks + 1 GCD for use; (8 * (1644 / 3) + 1333.33) / 9 = 635.26 epot/GCD; (1644 / 3) = 548 epot/GCD is the "standard" for a ~16% increase in enmity generated), but it's going to drop your mitigation by a fair deal (20% DR * 6 seconds duration / 22.5 second use cycle = 5.33% DR over time).

If you really want to bring up impractical tactics like using SC on CD to bolster enmity generation as opposed to saving/using it for IB, you can bring up impractical Provoke tactics as well. Anyone who uses Provoke right as the other tank's big damage buff is fading, especially if it's PLD 'voking off of WAR during the Pacification, is going to have a massive enmity advantage that completely negates whatever the other tank might've had. As soon as you start bringing up stuff that you're not really going to use unless you're just doing proof of concept, you start getting into the realm of inapplicable theory.