WAR > PLD

[whiskeybravo]

I've recently had some issues with BLM pulling hate off me right at the start, especially in CT. I feel like I've managed to compensate for it with:

FoF > Lob > Halone (unstacked) > Circle > Fast > Spirits > continue combo...

I'm not sure if that's "right or not", but I'm able to front load a bit more hate on the unstacked Halone at the cost of setting my first stacked Halone back one GCD. It seems to work well for me.

I never really noticed before, but our FC recently got a TS3 server, and now the BLM tells me when he's got a firestarter proc and is opening with Fire3 on a fresh mob lol.. Could be something like that happening to you

Uncombo'd Halone is OK in a bind, but I don't know about making it a habit to use like that. I'm a bit behind on coil progress compared to most folks, but I had some struggles keeping aggro on the mini-ADS adds at the start of turn 1, uncombo'd butchers block didn't last long enough to get a full rotation off. Should get used to burning offensive CDs and rotating in the off-GCD moves in between aggro combo

[Chiramu]

Mitigating damage is better than soaking heals without the heals doing anything. A large HP pool is nothing without mitigation.

It is stressful keeping aggro as a PLD though I agree, but the WAR's have to be more mindful of their own enmity if they are not MT.

[AlrikRouge]

Both PLD and WAR have their specific abilities to generate hate and aggro, emnity, whatever.

If played to their highest strengths, aggro would be passed back and forth. In a coordinated group, aggro IS passed back and forth because it is necessary, and PLD can hold hate against a WAR.

In a non coordinated group, or when someone decides he has a bigger virtual sack then the other, neither the PLD nor the WAR can keep and hold the hate.

Abigs above mentions how a pally would have to be stupid to compete on aggro and gives his solution as to how a WAR keeps the hate. But a PLD, with his emnity amplifier on Shield Oath, can start his or her RoH combo, and before the last hit, pop provoke, finish the combo, start the next one, throw in Spirits, finish the RoH, and keep it. Oh wait! WAR has hate again because HIS combo finished and he used a cool down, so I'll wait for provoke.......

Coordinated, PLD and WAR do very well. Not coordinated, don't bother with Ultima (HM) or beyond.

[Techro]

just a simple question here..but..you mentioned CT and i've seen this happen in CT multiple times, here it is: Did you perchance have shield oath up when you pulled? if you didn't i'm sorry to say that you have 99 problems and a WAR aint one bud.

[Traek]

It's the exact same true with a WAR tank, except with Butcher's Block instead of Rage of Halone. In fact, a PLD is going to have the advantage at the start because of their 20% damage debuff compared to WAR's 25%. On top of that, unlike PLD which can blow their damage buff right off the bat, for a WAR, because of Wrath and Maim, it's actually best for them to wait until after 2 full rotations before activating their damage buffs (Unchained, Berserk, Internal Release). WAR *could* Infuriate>Unchained>Berserk immediately, but it generates less enmity than delaying it. In *that* case, WAR is going to be hardcore frontloaded compared to PLD if they immediately go into BB spam but will be behind until shortly after their first BB is they delay the BB combo for Maim.

For some reason I was thinking combo'd SS had a slight higher potency then Savage, and made up for it in Halone, so my bad on the wording. My main point was with the Flash at the start, the comboed BB would be hitting sooner then a Halone, and thus the hate grab shortly into the fight as the OP seemed to be experiencing. Sounds like we agree on that, thanks for the correction, shows I haven't been playing enough PLD as of recent, heh. I do completely agree they'll be close in enmity if equally geared, that's why i said neck and neck earlier. ;o

As far as blowing Unchained + Berserk at the start, that is what most tanks *SHOULD* be doing. Threat gen at the very start of the fight is the most significant thing we can do to get DD rolling out faster. Threat gen is a joke after 2.1, you are describing optimizing threat against another tank fully optimizing threat, which simply shouldn't be happening. MTs are generally established, and securing threat at the start is more important then an overall threat boost down the road when DDs can barely make it halfway up the threat bar in the long run. I'd rather let that BRD or BLM front load all their damage asap without worry of aggroe jacking, since once established, my threat isn't going anywhere.

Your story was way cooler, you should tell us again!

Could you also tell us why you adjusted (read deleted) your initial post? xD

Did you figure out how provoke actually works? I could help you.

It's because of the initial post made. I guess 'stupid' being the keyword here, that's why he/she "adjusted" it (completely deleted it lol).

I'm not sure your reasoning for being a complete douche and continuing on berating someone who has gracefully bowed out:

I think this is exactly what's happening here. Thanks for helping me see that. I'm going to adjust my rotation accordingly and test. Thanks to the handful who contributed some useful information to this thread.

I understand that the tone of the original post was out-of-line. My apologies, but it was getting extremely frustrating. Thanks for reading

I didn't like their initial tone either, and they have corrected it and apologized. I have nothing but respect for people willing to do such, as they are hard to find these days. Please stop being vile and contributing to negativity abzoluut, and others coming in after the fact.

[YuriRamona]

In what universe is rapid enmity generation a factor? I'm not sure why this thread has continued so far.

[AlrikRouge]

In what universe is rapid enmity generation a factor? I'm not sure why this thread has continued so far.

I'm also curious to see how long this will keep coming up.

However, from what I have seen, if any thread comes up that mentions PLD and WAR, or SCH and WHM in it, it will veer off into which one is better than the other, statistical argument about how one is not better than the other, idealistic argument about how they see one as better than the other, turning into discussion on how one played against the other does work well, and then into discussion on how it is all a team effort anyway and doesn't matter.

I think this will probably go for a few more days, maybe a week, as it is coming to the end of that whole cycle, at which point it slowly fades into the background.....ever so slowly.....

[Haredin-Hunter]

From my understanding oof the tanking classes paladins are better for single target large bosses, like ultima weapon. Things with no adds. Where as the warrior excells in quick generation of hate over mass amount of mobs. I recall it being described as static/controlled paladin tanking but dynamic/chaos tanking for warriors.