Class Cap in 50 Bracket

[LongNu]

If you think MRD is too strong and want to force people to go as WAR then you need to make the WAR crystal useful in PVP.

It's not? I've seen Warrage 2v1 people before and crit for over 2600. I think it's just fine if you ask me. People are too used to the absurdity of MRD.

[bbt]

LNC and PUG simply don't exist.
ARC may exist now that Foe is worthless.
THM may also for a focused support player to sacrifice Flare.

MRD exists as a consequence of game design. WAR has nothing but tanking abilities in a game mode where they take next to no damage and are almost never focused. MRD has access to so many great skills otherwise barred to him (Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, EfaE, etc.) and can output obscene damage and control over a single target. The choice here is obvious.

The only way to fix this imbalance is to drastically alter the meta and make it so tanks are tanking damage instead of masquerading as a third DPS. Like I suggested in an earlier thread: taunts like Flash/Overpower and Provoke forcing target/damage onto the tank would change it so all of the Warrior's job abilities have validity.

I've seen Warrage 2v1 people before and crit for over 2600.

Those are the Inner Beast crits of a rank 30 Warrior, most times with Full Swing applied.

The tradeoff in removing your soul crystal is staying power (WAR) versus raw damage and utility (MRD). An extra Inner Beast every minute still pales in comparison to the sustained damage of an equivalently geared MRD.

[DustySlippers]

mrd are very cd oriented just use your CC propely against them

[Megido]

Nice thread title trying to hide an obvious whine.

I wouldnt count on a pvp rework for WAR. They just had one in PvE in the very version we're playing right now. And a rework would be needed. The 5 stack Wrath thing would be absolutely horrible unless IB and steel cyclone (thats about all that Defiance gives you over not using it) get some crazy effects to them. Unchained is pretty weird for pvp as it gives you the same damage as simply not using Defiance, in exchange for all wrath stacks. Unnerfing your damage for a hp buff you dont need.

A simple short sighted change like you imply would just break a class. Not to mention preventing future diversity in the pvp scene. I would prefer if you could come up with something constructive, something other than ironically swinging a giant 2h axe through the marauder class. I can try.

-Better cross class skills.

-Faster Wrath stacking would be needed. (an extra stack for critting or fun stuff like that)

-Inner Beast should apply a dmg debuff on the target instead of a -dmg taken self buff.

-Steel Cyclone could get nice synergy with that aoe stun/knockback skill we got that sounds like yesterdays burrito when used, forgot the name. A +dmg taken debuff perhaps? That would give some more use to the weird 'increase potency of your aoe stun' pvp trait. Pacify?

-Unchained could be some immunity to Heavy/Bind thing that other classes have access to. We are so easily kited and CC'd its insane how i'm allowed to run free all the time.

-Defiance.. the big one. I know its the thing that allows us to get Wrath stacks but it would be cool if its usable on others, sort of like Cover. Problem is that increasing max hp doesnt actually heal unless theres a heal attached, and the aforementioned Wrath stacks. The 25% dmg decrease is just so huge something big has to be done here. You're still stuck with a huge damage deficit with these changes, whereas a PLD can press his button and do móre damage.

I would like the choice of a more tanky playstyle. But i do not wish to trample over an existing or undiscovered or even not yet implemented class to do so.

And i just thought of something really simple: having Defiance simply increase damage in pvp, instead of decrease. Up to an acceptable point. After all the point of the Wolves' Den is not to survive hits from a giant dragon, but to cleave your enemies in tween.

[Warrage]

Sorry longnu i disagree on this one

[DustySlippers]

all the pros go glad for the hawks eye glory

[TaneshimaPopura]

@ Warrage...

No sure if you are serious. I've never lost a straight up fight with a Warrior. In fact, if I fought against a Warrior with Defiance on my HP doesn't drop while his does. No matter how you look at it Inner Beast is only a 14 potency attack. Why? Taking the case scenario of Turning on Defiance, Infuriate then Inner Beast. Problem is you cannot turn of Defiance for another 10 seconds. So say you take the maximum DMG combo and 3 auto-swings. To which all suffer the 33% DMG reduction. Sure if it was still on the 2.0 model where you get 300% HP back its good. But 100% DMG we're looking at most 1.4k CD with crit on Ilvl90s.

Meanwhile, the MRD is going to smash your face in with Straight shot 10% more Crit rate, make you hit like a wet noodle with Virus. Have invigorate to Stun > hit > Sprint away > Invigorate and re-engage when stun is ready or more potent CDs are up. Nothing in the Warrior tanking tools will beat the things he is able to cross over.

@Dusty

You're going to get CC'ed all over as a Gladiator with no Hallowed Ground, one trick pony that is easily countered when someone on the enemy team takes the initiative to CC. Besides stun locking with Hallowed Ground up and do a Full Swing > Glory > Spirit Within hits like a truck. You may not be removing Attunement but you sure as hell removing his Protect. It's the end for you when you stand longer than 8 seconds with a Range DPS, Fetter Wards Melee and The PLD on you.

[bbt]

In fact, if I fought against a Warrior with Defiance on my HP doesn't drop while his does.

you're oblivious and haven't played against a real Warrior

and sarcasm is hard to detect, apparently

[TaneshimaPopura]

@ bbt

I don't even know really sometimes. You do see Gladiators in PvP from time to time. I've seen enough of you guys posting game results with Warriors in them which hardly worth any salt against a competent MRD. So pray do tell me what the hell can a REAL Warrior do to out DPS a MRD? You only have Inner Beast with penalty attached whereas MRD has cross abilities with no downside.

I'm not oblivious you're just kidding yourself to think otherwise. Heck even PvE itself it has been proven that MRD does more damage than a WAR both in optimal circumstances. A freaking competent MRD can kill you within 7 seconds flat. Even without CD they can burst you down in under 10 seconds without Raging Strike.

[Skyhound]

One of FFXIV's biggest selling points is the armory system which allows customization of the different classes and using them how you see fit. This isn't PvE, there are no set "roles". The system is working as intended and I love it honestly, it adds depth to an otherwise bland system.