Light/full Party buff

[Rentahamster]

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!

That's the point I'm trying to make.

If the dungeon content is too hard for just a 4-man party without the buff, why design it that way?

Design the dungeon content to be just right for a 4-man party without the buff from the start.

Is there any particular reason why a 5% across the board boost somehow makes dungeon content balancing easier? No, there isn't. It's a 5% global boost. It's not specific to anything.

Why bother adding an extra layer of unnecessary complexity that is the 5% party buff? Why not instead just adjust the dungeon content to be 5% weaker to be balanced with a normal, 4-man party?

All things being equal, it is better to balance content by working within the means of existing systems instead of trying to add more bells and whistles, especially if those bells and whistles also bring with them unintended consequences that negatively effect gameplay.

[Chardrizard]

It gives you an illusion that you are stronger in a party, why remove something that doesnt harm anyone?

[Rentahamster]

It gives you an illusion that you are stronger in a party, why remove something that doesnt harm anyone?

Because it wasn't necessary to add in the first place, and it incentivizes bad behavior.

It was implemented to solve problems that don't exist, and in the process it causes negative unintended consequences.

[Aver]

Because some people will find anything to complain about when they're bored.

Zone/level restrictions make more sense than just outright removing it. I'm usually solo/duo, so it's rare I get the buff, but when I do it makes me happy to be in a party. It's a mental thing, not a game-balancing/breaking thing.

[Chardrizard]

Because it wasn't necessary to add in the first place, and it incentivizes bad behavior.

It was implemented to solve problems that don't exist, and in the process it causes negative unintended consequences.

yes it wasnt necessary to add, but it is already there and there is no harm done for it being there, also people actually likes getting something even though it means nothing, surprise surprise.

and what is this negative unintended consequences and bad behavious you talking about?

[Rentahamster]

and what is this negative unintended consequences and bad behavious you talking about?

Do I need to explain this again? I posted about it in this thread multiple times, and even the OP elaborated on this issue.



Let's say you are solo. You add another member to your party to make a duo. Your battle effectiveness increases accordingly to the ability of your partner and you ability to work together as a team.

Let's say you add another member to make your party a trio. Your battle effectiveness increases accordingly to the ability of the third party member and your ability to work together as a team.

Let's say you add another member to make a party of 4. Your battle effectiveness increases accordingly to the ability of the 4th parth member and you ability to work together as a team. In addition, you are granted an additional bonus for no apparent reason, other than the fact that you reached the arbitrary number 4.

That 4th member could be anyone, and you'd still get the party buff. It would be a crafter, it could be a rank 1 alt, it could be someone AFKing back in town. It doesn't matter. You can add a completely useless party member to your party, and while normally, this would be a hindrance to your party since you're just carrying dead weight, with the party buff in place this otherwise useless party member actually increases your overall effectiveness just by being there.

Functionally, your party is still a trio, but it is rewarded with buffs just by adding a useless member to it.

Is it fostering good gameplay to reward players for adding useless members to their party? No.

Is it necessary for dungeon content balance to have to resort to crutches like a party balance buff? No.

Look, this isn't a huge issue. The debate about the party buff is insignificant when compared to the other problems this game has.

That doesn't mean I can't point out bad design decisions when I see them.

[Aver]

That doesn't mean I can't point out bad design decisions when I see them.

Noted and agreed, but at the same time, why remove it? Fix it.

As a person, I don't like having a feature added just to have it removed arbitrarily, be it for a game or console, software, hardware - the human mind just isn't wired to like that. So instead, one takes a system that seems a little rushed and easily exploitable and makes it worthwhile by adding two or three simple checks. Is the 4th/8th person in the same zone? Are they an acceptable level range with regards to the party? Are they DoW/DoM? If any of these are no, poof no buff. There, problem fixed.

[Chardrizard]

realistically no one is going that far to invite crafters/uselessppl for an insignificant buff, it is a possible scenario but it is not gonna be something that everyone does like "abandoning leves".

Is it fostering good gameplay to reward players for adding useless members to their party?

what is good gameplay? it's subjective.

sure, it might be a bad design, but it is a bad design that people actually enjoys, removing it would cause nothing but setting these people to rage mode and ensues another angry thread.

[Frebaut]

That's the point I'm trying to make.

If the dungeon content is too hard for just a 4-man party without the buff, why design it that way?

Design the dungeon content to be just right for a 4-man party without the buff from the start.

Is there any particular reason why a 5% across the board boost somehow makes dungeon content balancing easier? No, there isn't. It's a 5% global boost. It's not specific to anything.

Why bother adding an extra layer of unnecessary complexity that is the 5% party buff? Why not instead just adjust the dungeon content to be 5% weaker to be balanced with a normal, 4-man party?

All things being equal, it is better to balance content by working within the means of existing systems instead of trying to add more bells and whistles, especially if those bells and whistles also bring with them unintended consequences that negatively effect gameplay.

Why are you assuming their making the Dungeons to accommodate the buffs? With the way the game is now either you Zerg through mobs or Their AoE wipes everyone in rang ( IMPS ). You guys over analyze everything. Its funny on the German thread the little they do have they fricken laugh at this American one about how people talk it to death. I agree with them. Wait till the dam content comes out then Bitch and complain if its to easy. No matter what people say SE will release it how they see fit them tweak it if it needs to be.
EDIT: The buff was to add incentive to party play, thats why the buff is so low at 4 and 8 man parties.

[Shikaree]

Maybe instead of complaining about party size buffs, how about we instead focus on fixing thaumaturges so they can't go out and solo a good deal of the nm content we have currently?