BARD 2.1 change [requesting letter from the producer explanation]

[Zfz]

Answer a question with a question.
Clarify a puzzle with a puzzle analogy.

:3

[Kluya15]

Whatever they do, it will turn a mediocre dps to a shitty one.

This nerf was really not needed, devs are blind. Im forced to play DRG now

Stop the dramatics. Bards make Dragoon + Caster dps incredible, they are extremely mobile, a great silence, and damage output is quite well if you know your rotations.

[Silverharp]

I'm on the fence about this whole bard thing, I really want to find some clear facts on the whole thing because I'm finding a hard time making a final judgement. All over the forums it seems like there's people who want the nerf to happen vs people who don't agree that not only was the nerf not needed but also that BRD is the lowest dps in the game. Meanwhile, I mentioned dps damage earlier this week and my FC leader says that brd is the highest. I really just want the facts and not have to fish through all of this. :/

[Pellegri]

I'm on the fence about this whole bard thing, I really want to find some clear facts on the whole thing because I'm finding a hard time making a final judgement. All over the forums it seems like there's people who want the nerf to happen vs people who don't agree that not only was the nerf not needed but also that BRD is the lowest dps in the game. Meanwhile, I mentioned dps damage earlier this week and my FC leader says that brd is the highest. I really just want the facts and not have to fish through all of this. :/

Most of the people wanting the nerf to happen have never played a bard or only played one at early levels where it has a clear advantage over other classes. There's also a high chance the people who have not played one were also blown away by a skilled bard and automatically assume all bards are that good when compared to themselves.

When it comes to what class is the strongest it all comes down to player skill. If I didn't play a bard at endgame level I could sit there till I was blue in the face saying that bard is the strongest just because a skilled bard can out dps a decent anything else. But to actually see a bard at endgame level(Twintania) and to see all other classes barring summoner(I already have seen how well it does when compared to bard) it's easy for me to say bard is below the rest if skill level and gear are equivalent. A good bard can out dps a bad anything else which is probably all your fc leader has seen, but a good anything else can easily out dps a good bard. I've seen with and played with skilled players since I began this game and even with my own gear and skill level I can see the limits of my class when compared to the others.

Too much movement affecting dps is no excuse anymore when all 4 other dps classes are built to have to move but at the same time have the ability to have high numbers that make up for their movement. Bard is built around moving and it's lower dps and instant casts are proof of that. The reason for the melee buff in the first place(even though a skilled melee still does better than a skilled bard) is because the majority of the masses are unskilled and can't manage to keep the damage going while on the move. Those same masses see a decent bard and see how it can keep it's damage going while moving and think "that's OP" when none of them understand why bard is able to do that or even why they can't pull high numbers because they themselves lack the skill to do so.

At this point there's honestly little they could do that would make me switch classes as I enjoy bard and am skilled at it. It's just sad though that in the case of nerfs/buffs they seem to be wanting to appease the masses because they don't understand how a bard works or even how any other class works and assume that movement somehow means less numbers for them.

[Ryans]

Now it would be amazing if people like you could stop posting everytime a bard doesn't know exactly when you need tp or mana because you never speak up. OMFG I NO KNOW HOW TO PLAY?!!?? I NED BARD TO TO BACK ME UP AND MAEK UP 4 MY BEIN TURRIBLE. Seriously people, if you need a song played then SAY SO, DO NOT EXPECT THE BARD IN YOUR GROUP TO ALWAYS KNOW WHEN YOU NEED HELP BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SPEAK UP. It's people like you that are getting the lowest dps class nerfed even more just because bards can't read minds.

There are only two healers in a party, it's pretty easy to move them to place in your party list that is easy for you to see and then ballad when they are low on mana, unless otherwise planned for a specific part of a fight. A healer shouldn't have to take their attention off the group to ask for ballad as it could be fatal. Though all healers should have a ballad request macro anyways.

[dascorp]

Well first, can SE address as to why going from brd relic to relic +1 bow... we only get +1 damage on our weapon and other jobs get +2 to +3 damage increase from going to a +1 relic weapon? and now this?

[Pellegri]

There are only two healers in a party, it's pretty easy to move them to place in your party list that is easy for you to see and then ballad when they are low on mana, unless otherwise planned for a specific part of a fight. A healer shouldn't have to take their attention off the group to ask for ballad as it could be fatal. Though all healers should have a ballad request macro anyways.

You vastly overestimate a lot of the healers out there or even the bad bards. Yes a good bard will know when healers need mana, I wasn't talking about good bards though when I wrote that though. I was talking about bards who don't know that they have 2 dots they need to keep up at all times and not one after the other when one falls off(meaning putting up a dot waiting for it to fall off then putting up the other and waiting for it to fall off before they use the first again). Bards who think that it's good to sit in song 90% of the dungeon so it helps other people when it's not even needed for 5% of the dungeon. Bards who think that when they move they have to stop attacking until they stop, they don't understand that we can move and damage at the same time.

Can't say what all you've seen but over the last 3 months of this game I've seen far more bards that don't know wtf to do than I have ones that could actually be able to tell a healer needs mana and should ballad on their own. I also wasn't talking about 8man content that is challenging in the slightest(titan/coil), I was talking about 4man content where the vast majority of the complaints about bards come from because either the bard sucks or people don't understand how a bard is played and why it is capable of moving while dpsing.

[Noata]

I'm on the fence about this whole bard thing, I really want to find some clear facts on the whole thing because I'm finding a hard time making a final judgement. All over the forums it seems like there's people who want the nerf to happen vs people who don't agree that not only was the nerf not needed but also that BRD is the lowest dps in the game. Meanwhile, I mentioned dps damage earlier this week and my FC leader says that brd is the highest. I really just want the facts and not have to fish through all of this. :/

your better off leaving it to the professionals, forums are not what they used to be, and you wont get a straight answer. If SE thinks something needs to be done they will do it. There is no need to worry about player hearsay, its mostly just opinions. Bards are a Support class, this means that outside DPS they also have support and utility moves that help the party. This means given their versatility SE thought they had a little too much individually to contribute to the party. the forums are spreading misinformation and assumptions. I normally wouldn't post but you seem to be legitimately concerned. I apologize for not answering your question. I believe there is not a person on these forums who can though.

[Curcio]

I'd like to point out to you, Pellegri, that nerfs/buffs in videogames don't solely depend on how loud the community is for or against them.

Technology these days is pretty incredible. They can track their own statistics, parsers, heatmaps, etc. to figure out class balance. I'm not saying the community has no say in it, but you're assumption that the community generally doesn't understand bard isn't true. All the facts that SE has gathered probably point to Bard being a little ahead of the curve.

I see this argument all the time on forums. People assume because others cry "Nerf!" the developers get scared and hit the button. It doesn't quite work that way. There's more going on behind the scenes that you don't see that tells them that a class needs a balance change.

[Pellegri]

I'd like to point out to you, Pellegri, that nerfs/buffs in videogames don't solely depend on how loud the community is for or against them.

Nowhere did I say that's how it was in most games or even mmos, hell I've even played multiple mmos where the community choice ends up being terrible in the end and that's why it was never changed. I've also played mmos where the devs clearly listen to whoever is the loudest when it comes to changes in the game, many changes were originally made going from 1.0 to 2.0 because of community decisions. However when they came to 2.0 those decisions didn't end as you can see over the past few months where many additions were added to 2.1 because of the community and people having a voice.

Do you honestly believe when you look at say the warrior buffs that none of that was because of community outcry? That the devs went from saying early in the games life that warriors were "so strong and people didn't know how to play them correctly" to a complete 180 on the subject a month later when we got a giant list of buffs. Obviously all those changes were made because of dev choices and not because they listened to the community on the subject right?

It's the same thing with bards and melee, melee are getting buffed because the masses can't move out of things fast enough to continue their rotation where they would be higher end damage dealers. Bards are getting some sort of nerf because the masses do not understand how bard works and that because of it's support and movement it is meant to do less damage than everything else(which compared to equally geared/skilled drg/mnk/blm/smn they are lower dps), people don't see that though because they lack the skill many bards have that they are complaining about being so good compared to them.