BARD 2.1 change [requesting letter from the producer explanation]

[Pellegri]

Wouldnt that give the TP regen songs some use?

Except for the fact that it would gimp us far below the nerfs they already have planned for our class? Now pretend for a second(because that's all you can do when you only have a lvl 15 bard) that you now no longer have invigorate as a dragoon, that is what it feels like as a bard. How do you think it would feel to spend 20secs(plus the time it takes to cast) every 2mins being in a gimped state(20% dmg reduction due to song) when you're already the lowest dps currently? Because that's what people here have been asking, why is the lowest dps in the game getting nerfs to it when no other class is receiving any form of nerf(besides blm which will not effect their dps much) when all of them are already above bards?

If you as a dragoon need a bard to ever use our tp song then you are either a terrible dragoon or have just died on a fight and got rezzed with little tp and no invigorate up. Beyond that if either of those are the case, how hard is it exactly to just say "tp song please"? The same goes for paladins and warriors, they can either speak up when they could use tp or they can stop being terrible and learn how to weave the correct abilities in and out so they stop running out of tp.

Now it would be amazing if people like you could stop posting everytime a bard doesn't know exactly when you need tp or mana because you never speak up. OMFG I NO KNOW HOW TO PLAY?!!?? I NED BARD TO TO BACK ME UP AND MAEK UP 4 MY BEIN TURRIBLE. Seriously people, if you need a song played then SAY SO, DO NOT EXPECT THE BARD IN YOUR GROUP TO ALWAYS KNOW WHEN YOU NEED HELP BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SPEAK UP. It's people like you that are getting the lowest dps class nerfed even more just because bards can't read minds.

[Ryans]

Now it would be amazing if people like you could stop posting everytime a bard doesn't know exactly when you need tp or mana because you never speak up. OMFG I NO KNOW HOW TO PLAY?!!?? I NED BARD TO TO BACK ME UP AND MAEK UP 4 MY BEIN TURRIBLE. Seriously people, if you need a song played then SAY SO, DO NOT EXPECT THE BARD IN YOUR GROUP TO ALWAYS KNOW WHEN YOU NEED HELP BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SPEAK UP. It's people like you that are getting the lowest dps class nerfed even more just because bards can't read minds.

There are only two healers in a party, it's pretty easy to move them to place in your party list that is easy for you to see and then ballad when they are low on mana, unless otherwise planned for a specific part of a fight. A healer shouldn't have to take their attention off the group to ask for ballad as it could be fatal. Though all healers should have a ballad request macro anyways.

[Pellegri]

There are only two healers in a party, it's pretty easy to move them to place in your party list that is easy for you to see and then ballad when they are low on mana, unless otherwise planned for a specific part of a fight. A healer shouldn't have to take their attention off the group to ask for ballad as it could be fatal. Though all healers should have a ballad request macro anyways.

You vastly overestimate a lot of the healers out there or even the bad bards. Yes a good bard will know when healers need mana, I wasn't talking about good bards though when I wrote that though. I was talking about bards who don't know that they have 2 dots they need to keep up at all times and not one after the other when one falls off(meaning putting up a dot waiting for it to fall off then putting up the other and waiting for it to fall off before they use the first again). Bards who think that it's good to sit in song 90% of the dungeon so it helps other people when it's not even needed for 5% of the dungeon. Bards who think that when they move they have to stop attacking until they stop, they don't understand that we can move and damage at the same time.

Can't say what all you've seen but over the last 3 months of this game I've seen far more bards that don't know wtf to do than I have ones that could actually be able to tell a healer needs mana and should ballad on their own. I also wasn't talking about 8man content that is challenging in the slightest(titan/coil), I was talking about 4man content where the vast majority of the complaints about bards come from because either the bard sucks or people don't understand how a bard is played and why it is capable of moving while dpsing.

[Kletian]

Except for the fact that it would gimp us far below the nerfs they already have planned for our class? snip.

Haha Woah there! A little bit more hostility I was expecting from an honest question. I will respond to your heated arguments now.


1. If I no longer had invigorate as a dragoon? Then I'd run out of TP after being dead or after AOE spam. Otherwise I never use it. The stages where melee needs to stop dps to run from bosses gives me plenty of time to TP regen.
2. I posited that doing 80% of your DPS with TP regen song up is better than doing 20% of your dps through autoattacks waiting for TP regen. Though if bards ever needed to stop shooting to dodge a mechanic, like dragoons you probably wouldnt need TP regen.
3. I never suggested that "bards don't know when to use their songs". I merely noted that the other songs seem to get a lot more usage than TP regen specially when nearly every class has invigorate available to them.
4. Bards are (by numbers) the lowest "single target dps" because of their movement dps, being less physically squishy than mages yet with comparable AOE damage, offering silence, and songs. People take bards to coil because of silence, songs, and Aoe; it's when they stop taking monks and dragoons to coil for single target damage that things really get out of hand.

[Billzey]

Haha Woah there! A little bit more hostility I was expecting from an honest question. I will respond to your heated arguments now.


1. If I no longer had invigorate as a dragoon? Then I'd run out of TP after being dead or after AOE spam. Otherwise I never use it. The stages where melee needs to stop dps to run from bosses gives me plenty of time to TP regen.
2. I posited that doing 80% of your DPS with TP regen song up is better than doing 20% of your dps through autoattacks waiting for TP regen. Though if bards ever needed to stop shooting to dodge a mechanic, like dragoons you probably wouldnt need TP regen.
3. I never suggested that "bards don't know when to use their songs". I merely noted that the other songs seem to get a lot more usage than TP regen specially when nearly every class has invigorate available to them.
4. Bards are (by numbers) the lowest "single target dps" because of their movement dps, being less physically squishy than mages yet with comparable AOE damage, offering silence, and songs. People take bards to coil because of silence, songs, and Aoe; it's when they stop taking monks and dragoons to coil for single target damage that things really get out of hand.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you really think BRD has the lowest single target DPS, or you have played with some incredibly horrible BRDs. I've never seen a MNK/DRG even come remotely close to the DPS a BRD can put out in turn 1,2, and 4. To even suggest DRG has higher single target DPS than BRD is laughable.

[Pellegri]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you really think BRD has the lowest single target DPS, or you have played with some incredibly horrible BRDs. I've never seen a MNK/DRG even come remotely close to the DPS a BRD can put out in turn 1,2, and 4. To even suggest DRG has higher single target DPS than BRD is laughable.

Can give you turns 2/4 but turn 1 is pretty laughable if a melee isn't blowing up the bard. Literally the only time a melee has to get off one boss is when they switch over to the other to burn it, none of either snakes aoes require melee to actually position themselves away from the boss so they can't continue damage. Unless ofcourse a group is doing turn 1 the real way where they continue to bring slimes into the bosses throughout the fight(which would make bard above melee), in which case lol.

[BrandoH]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you really think BRD has the lowest single target DPS, or you have played with some incredibly horrible BRDs. I've never seen a MNK/DRG even come remotely close to the DPS a BRD can put out in turn 1,2, and 4. To even suggest DRG has higher single target DPS than BRD is laughable.

I'm sorry you've been playing with bad melee. They're not a faceroll class like BRD/BLM. But we do have the worst single-target DPS.

[Lex_Luger]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you really think BRD has the lowest single target DPS, or you have played with some incredibly horrible BRDs. I've never seen a MNK/DRG even come remotely close to the DPS a BRD can put out in turn 1,2, and 4. To even suggest DRG has higher single target DPS than BRD is laughable.

Sorry, but you are very very wrong, and obviously haven't played with geared melee dps/blms. Yes, BRD absolutely shines around ilvl 70 and especially in AK/Ifrit/Garuda/Titan. Start doing progression content. We have some GREAT bards in my FC (former WoW gladiators... these guys can play), and they are equally geared to our melee dps. And still, on turn5, our melee DPS have the most output. Stop talking about things you aren't qualified to speak of.

[Kletian]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you really think BRD has the lowest single target DPS, or you have played with some incredibly horrible BRDs. I've never seen a MNK/DRG even come remotely close to the DPS a BRD can put out in turn 1,2, and 4. To even suggest DRG has higher single target DPS than BRD is laughable.

I was taking point 4 as Pelligri was arguing that Bards are already the weakest and anything more would gimp them. If however, Bard do, gear for gear, the same single target Dps as Monks and dragoons then they SHOULD be nerfed (unless the melee buffed planned will remedy the difference.)