Bonus reward for tanking

[Lunavi]

Not sure if this was directly at me or not but....

No, I don't think I deserve any of that, personally. But I also have a separate char that is a BLM, and I would pay someone else to play tank for me at times. And the numbers I used previously were just random values for the sake of example, the real number would be whatever people are willing to pay.

Its not about deserve or not deserve, its about supply and demand and incentivization (not a word, lol). If the gil rewards start out magnanimous, more people will flock to tanking, as the supply of tanks increases, the price needed to pay to support the demand for tanks will decrease. This would balance out the problem, those willing to tank the dungeons when the price is 0, will do it - but its proven right now that that is not very many. Those willing to run on their tank when the reward for tanking (amount of gil) exceeds the reward for playing a different toon (fun, tomes, progression) will increase as the price goes up, when we reach equilibrium, the price for tank over the long run will be set.

Economics 101, and its also how (most of) the American economy works.

And you people who don't have a tank need to stop projecting a "tank snob" attitude on us. I would actually agree that there are tanks who take this attitude further than is needed, but if by "lessor class" you mean "less valuable due to an abundance of supply for DF missions" then, yes, more in demand goods (tanks) should be rewarded more than less in demand goods (dps). Unless you're a COMMIEE!!!! GET'EM!

So you do not think that the lower queue times that makes you progress faster is reward enough? The problem is not that the tanks gets money, but the fact that alot of money are generated at once. 200k gil per day for every character generated (the promise of 200k gil per day WOULD make everyone roll all classes) would pretty quickly make gil worth nothing at all. There is a difference in getting paid for queueing with someone than money getting created out of nowhere for it. As I said, the gil given is a pretty small/insignifant reward, but 200k gil per day all characters generated would severely harm the system. THere would be so much gil in rotation that a very big inflation would be unpreventable.

[Ehayte]

Yes, I want a Tank and you would want DPS and Healers to clear content

Yes, but there are many many more healers and DPS that need dungeons run than tanks - if an instant queue was incentive enough for tanks to queue, then you wouldn't really see tanks getting them at all, because tanks would queue in large enough numbers until the instant queues were gone. Tell me, what benefit would Ehayte the Tank get from queueing for Sastasha at level 50? No matter what you answer, without external modifiers, its not enough for any reasonable amount of people to consistently act that way; I know that because we can see it happening currently.

What we are looking at right now is essentially an oligopoly (a few entities controlling most of the market) for running dungeons. Tanks don't need you (right now) anywhere nearly as bad as you need a tank. Tanks could use some gil though, and you seem to have quite a lot of it from all the tradeskilling you have been doing while waiting for queues....I wonder if there is a way...we could exchange those goods....so that we both...benefit... hmmm....

So you do not think that the lower queue times that makes you progress faster is reward enough? The problem is not that the tanks gets money, but the fact that alot of money are generated at once. 200k gil per day for every character generated (the promise of 200k gil per day WOULD make everyone roll all classes) would pretty quickly make gil worth nothing at all. There is a difference in getting paid for queueing with someone than money getting created out of nowhere for it. As I said, the gil given is a pretty small/insignifant reward, but 200k gil per day all characters generated would severely harm the system. THere would be so much gil in rotation that a very big inflation would be unpreventable.

Let's take "you" and "me" out of this, since I, personally, and you, personally, are not in control of this larger situation. Second, I have NO idea where you are getting a 200k gil / day figure. Maybe I missed it earlier on in the post? Every proposal that I set fourth here was an EXCHANGE of gil, not an infusion of gil. If DPS_01 gives Tank_01 200k gil, no gil has been added or removed from the system, it has changed hands, creating velocity of money, which increases all sorts of macro-economic benefits. All of my proposals and arguments have been based around what would essentially be, in loose terms, a "bid" system to get a tank to queue up with you.

I agree, 200k gil/day would be totally insane if it were generated from SE and given to tanks to queue - the number would either need to be insignificant (and thus not provide much if any incentive for tanks to queue, as it stands with our assumptions here), or it would need to be supplied by existent gil to avoid devaluation of gil (AKA inflation).

[RedAntares]

Yes, but there are many many more healers and DPS that need dungeons run than tanks - if an instant queue was incentive enough for tanks to queue, then you wouldn't really see tanks getting them at all, because tanks would queue in large enough numbers until the instant queues were gone. Tell me, what benefit would Ehayte the Tank get from queueing for Sastasha at level 50? No matter what you answer, without external modifiers, its not enough for any reasonable amount of people to consistently act that way; I know that because we can see it happening currently.

Sure, there are not enough incentives right now for a lvl 50 tank to run Sastasha as there are not enough incentives for a lvl 50 DPS or healer to run low lvl dungeons aside from helping friends or getting sets of gear but we aren't talking about the normal DF here, we are talking about the DF Roulette that throws you into a random dungeon JUST FOR FUN (that's the key word here) while giving you a plus for going with one of the most sought Jobs at the moment while helping some new players clear that dungeon in the process. If you think that's not enough, you can try not using this new feature or charge whatever you want for helping people clear low lvl content and see where that gets you.

What we are looking at right now is essentially an oligopoly (a few entities controlling most of the market) for running dungeons. Tanks don't need you (right now) anywhere nearly as bad as you need a tank. Tanks could use some gil though, and you seem to have quite a lot of it from all the tradeskilling you have been doing while waiting for queues....I wonder if there is a way...we could exchange those goods....so that we both...benefit... hmmm....

Let me make something clear, I don't need a tank as much as you think I do, If I wanted to cap tomes, I can go with a full SMN party and clear WP in 15min or less and thankfully I have friends that can help tanking if needed sometimes which I try to repay with whatever they might need later if I can, which I think it's the whole purpose of a good community in any MMO (help each other out). If you think I'm swimming in gil just because I do other stuff while waiting on queues you are mistaken.

I'm not saying tanks shouldn't be rewarded for helping but it's kinda sad to see some of them asking for more when they are giving a few extras as rewards already for using a new feature that's helps everyone in the long run.