Myth Caps

[Lurkios]

the key is that he said "actually play the game to get large amounts of them" keyword being large. If you want large amounts of tomestones then you have to play every week.

And what reason is there to differentiate between a player who plays for 10 hours every week and one who plays for 20 hours every other?

[Hanabira]

And what reason is there to differentiate between a player who plays for 10 hours every week and one who plays for 20 hours every other?

I work a full time job, im working on a masters degree where im always knee deep in papers, i keep a social life and a family life.. yet i still have time to cap myths and run my coil static a few times a week. If you have 10 hours a week, you cant realistically expect to be as geared as someone who can give more time to it. Any system who allows someone who can play 1 hour a day to be remotely as geared as someone who plays 8 a day is a failure imo because there is no reason to put in any effort outside of that 1 hour.

[Lurkios]

I work a full time job, im working on a masters degree where im always knee deep in papers, i keep a social life and a family life.. yet i still have time to cap myths and run my coil static a few times a week. If you have 10 hours a week, you cant realistically expect to be as geared as someone who can give more time to it. Any system who allows someone who can play 1 hour a day to be remotely as geared as someone who plays 8 a day is a failure imo because there is no reason to put in any effort outside of that 1 hour.

That's all good and well... also entirely irrelevant to the conversation, but OK. We're not talking about more or less time spent, every example given has represented an equal amount of time on either side, only the spread changes. It's good that you have your life in order though, keep it up.

Decreased player interaction with the game is the issue. The further spread out these times are, the more fragmented the playerbase becomes.

The proposed roleover system does not change the amount of interaction required to achieve the same goal one or the other at all. There is no "decreased player interaction with the game". And it is true that the system would allow someone to log in for a few days a month and run WP 40 times to get their tomes instead of a few hours a week running it 10 times, I honestly don't see anyone majorly changing their existing playing habits because of this possibility. And don't forget, the more regular players also have their weekly shots at coil and the gear that drops from there, which the rest of us miss out on as well.

what would be the point though, if you dont have time to play, you dont have time to play.

Oh come now, you know better than that. With that full time job, masters degree that keeps you knee deep in papers, social life and family there has not been one single time you had to ask for an extension or a rain check? Not having time to play today doesn't mean you can't tomorrow.

[juniglee]

Having no cap on myth stones is actually bad.

Try playing with Southeast Asian players (or even hardcore players in general). They are the sort of players who can spend 23 hours gaming and 1 hour sleeping. Now, put a good number of these guys in a single server, and what happens? Suddenly, everyone is running around in fully decked out AF2 gear. WP Relic+1 Speedruns now become WP Relic+1/AF2 Speedruns. "N00b y u no AF2 gear, we cannot down Demon Wall. gg n00b" *leaves party*

The biggest example of unlimited caps for stones is our current Philosophy tomestones. WP speedrun standards are now Relic +1 (given how easy it is to obtain- errrhem, I mean buy it), as well as full DL gear. If myth was uncapped, not only will there be no reason to go to Darklight, but said standards would also go up. As mentioned, it also further widens the gap between the casual player and the hardcore. I get that the hardcore want to be a faction of their own, and be rewarded for being hardcore, but if you cater to only the hardcore, which are usually the minority, the casuals quit and so shall the majority of the subscriptions and playerbase. Also, eventually there will be a surplus of Myth stones. What should happen to them then? Excess philosophy stones are being traded in for crafting materials, which the market is now currently flooded with, due to the number of players running WP repeatedly per day. The price of philosphy mats on my server are currently 10k per piece. And still steadily dropping. The price of them is actually irrelevant, but what I'm trying to point out here is the sheer number of WP grinding a player can do, given the motivation of unlimited myth stone caps, even if there were diminishing returns.

As for Coil drops, they are a reward for actually forming your own party, and going to try the hardest raids in the game at the current time. The difference between a Coil player and a non-Coil player is not very huge at the moment either - Coil drops loots 8 times a week, to be split among 8 party members (of which the party might not even have a class the loot is designed for - ie. MNK drops with a 1 dragoon/0 monk party), which also has to be split among 12 or 13 slots per character. Here's a breakdown (using the current optimal party composition of 2 PLD/2 BRD/1 BLM/1 MNK/1 WHM/1 SCH):

- 8 weapons among 8 party members - 1 chest out of 8 drops a weapon
- 2 shields to be split among 2 Paladins - 1 chest out of 8 drops a shield
- 8 gloves to be split among 8 characters
- 8 helms to be split among 8 characters
- 8 chest pieces to be split among 8 characters
- 8 <insert common gear slot> to be split among 8 characters
- Not counting DRG gear that drops in these instances, which given the example party composition, is useless outside of gearing an alt DRG

Myth stones are essentially a way to help non-Coil players gear up for harder content. At this current stage, I believe the prevailing gear standard is, and should be, Darklight. This might change come Crystal Tower, which also has planned lockout for loots (except it's based on a timer, not based on week). There is no reason to up the standard to Myth, when all current content in this game bar Coil can be cleared with ease simply using Darklight or crafted i70 gear.

Casuals shouldn't have to play catch up to the hardcores. At least, not fall so far behind that they can never reach the hardcores. Yoshi-P has intended that the game be enjoyed by all - both casual and hardcore. I don't see any reason they should remove the cap on myth stones. It is the single thing keeping both the hardcore and casuals close to each other.

I'm sorry if this is a noob question but what is "/10char"? o. O I've seen it posted in this thread and other threads but I don't understand what it means.. ^^;

There is a character posting limitation of minimum 10 characters, and maximum 1000 characters per post in this forums. So it's a way to add to your character count, without losing meaning of your original less-than-10-characters post.

[Mitski]

Any system who allows someone who can play 1 hour a day to be remotely as geared as someone who plays 8 a day is a failure imo because there is no reason to put in any effort outside of that 1 hour.

NO ONE IS SUGGESTING THAT SE REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF TIME OR EFFORT REQUIRED.

Please stop making irrelevant comparisons. Even if your comparison was relevant, it wouldn't be accurate because you've assumed that the only motivation to play is to acquire gear. For many players, gear is simply a means to an end.

*SNIP*.

I can understand your reasoning in extreme cases, but I think there is room to expand the cap before destabilizing the community . If done correctly, it may actually improve the community by enticing new players to start playing.

[Hanabira]

NO ONE IS SUGGESTING THAT SE REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF TIME OR EFFORT REQUIRED TO OBTAIN TOMESTONES.

Please stop making irrelevant comparisons. Even if your comparison was relevant, it wouldn't be accurate because you've assumed that the only motivation to play is to acquire gear. For many players, gear is simply a means to an end.

The point of this thread is saying that people dont always have time to get to cap, so just it roll over right? So my question is.. why should the guy who actually had time to do it be equal to the one that didnt? typing in bold caps and underlines doesnt make it any less stupid

[Mitski]

The point of this thread is saying that people dont always have time to get to cap, so just it roll over right? So my question is.. why should the guy who actually had time to do it be equal to the one that didn't?

They will only be equal if both guys do equal work. If the 2nd guy never does the work, he won't get the reward. So my question to you is... why do you think one player should receive less than another for accomplishing the same task?

[FelisC]

And what reason is there to differentiate between a player who plays for 10 hours every week and one who plays for 20 hours every other?

Decreased player interaction with the game is the issue. The further spread out these times are, the more fragmented the playerbase becomes.

I think we all see the wisdom in SOME time-based delineation and it must be set somewhere. If it was increased to a monthly cap, there would still be players who would want it stretched because of their own commitments/obligations that prevent them from reaching it in that time period. A week to reach the cap is not restrictive to the vast majority of players.