Will Paladins get an enmity boost as well?

[PArcher]

The one supposed advantage of flash is that you can restore your mana to keep flashing by switching to a fast->riot->flash combo. However, this takes 2 GCD to build up the mana. In that time, the WAR has almost generated enough TP to perform another overpower, which should not only provide more enmity overall, but more damage too.

The only way I can think of that a WAR will build up TP to get another OP off in that time is if he does nothing else...OP is 130 TP, and you regen I think 70 or 80 every three seconds or so (not sure on exact numbers, sorry, but I know its not enough to regen enough for OP every tick). So in order to do that, you have to not use any abilites that use TP while waiting for it to regen...which makes the PAL's regen better, since they are still doing something productive as they regen (yes, Flash for WAR too, and your Wrath abilities, but if your MP is out or you're not Infuriated...)

[Giantbane]

The only way I can think of that a WAR will build up TP to get another OP off in that time is if he does nothing else...OP is 130 TP, and you regen I think 70 or 80 every three seconds or so (not sure on exact numbers, sorry, but I know its not enough to regen enough for OP every tick). So in order to do that, you have to not use any abilites that use TP while waiting for it to regen...which makes the PAL's regen better, since they are still doing something productive as they regen (yes, Flash for WAR too, and your Wrath abilities, but if your MP is out or you're not Infuriated...)

Exactly, don't do anything else, regen TP and just overpower when you can. I'm pretty sure it's 60 TP every GCD (2.5s). So every ~3.167 GCD you get off another Overpower. Overpower does both damage and generates threat. So as long as you've got more than 3 targets (you can target cycle easily with 3 or fewer targets to save TP), it seems at least as good at both enmity generation and damage compared to fast -> riot -> flash. Especially since you'll be able to throw in an occasional flash during the down time as you regen mana for that. This should be more pronounced with the 2.1 changes.

[Skies]

Exactly, don't do anything else, regen TP and just overpower when you can. I'm pretty sure it's 60 TP every GCD (2.5s).

Nope, all recovery and DoT ticks are synchronized. They are all 3 seconds. It would take 3 ticks to regen enough TP for Overpower, so 9 seconds. One second below 4 GCDs

[Giantbane]

Nope, all recovery and DoT ticks are synchronized. They are all 3 seconds. It would take 3 ticks to regen enough TP for Overpower, so 9 seconds. One second below 4 GCDs

Either way, you only need to wait 3 ticks when you're down to 0, and after 3 ticks you will only have to wait 2 ticks for the next 5 applications. Overpower is generating threat and doing damage to all targets while fast->riot->flash is only doing damage to one target, and probably not generating much, if any additional enmity or damage after you've bottom'd out your AoE resource pool.

I think you missed the whole point of what I was saying. There is no TP penalty for PLD AoE spam. Manageable threat in all AoE scenarios as well as seamless transition to ST with net TP gain (instead of Overpower's loss), not to mention net MP gain for AoE situations while STing, makes PLD's position a better one. I agree in 2.1 fixes will most likely remedy *most* these situations, that is why it is needed. The fact PLDs see "enmity increase" and get all jelly just shows they don't fundamentally understand Warrior. Warrior's who say "it was good enough" aren't looking at the bigger picture.

I know there's no TP penalty for the PLD. The TP penalty for the WAR means it's harder to play. There's nothing wrong with that in my mind. But the WAR can currently be just as effective, with the combination of buffs for overpower and using flash, infuriate->wrath moves, and just waiting to conserve TP. And he is currently much better for enmity generation at the beginning of a fight since all his buffs work to boost overpower (and berserk even boosts flash), but nothing the PLD has boosts flash (well, save the base shield oath bonus).

In my mind 2.1 is going to make good WARs the much preferred AoE tank. Giving a PLD access to Overpower would at least make that more balanced since they can use overpower with fight or flight to generate AoE enmity faster. But they do so while stressing their own TP pool, which seems like a valid trade off.

[Traek]

I know there's no TP penalty for the PLD. The TP penalty for the WAR means it's harder to play. There's nothing wrong with that in my mind. But the WAR can currently be just as effective, with the combination of buffs for overpower and using flash, infuriate->wrath moves, and just waiting to conserve TP. And he is currently much better for enmity generation at the beginning of a fight since all his buffs work to boost overpower (and berserk even boosts flash), but nothing the PLD has boosts flash (well, save the base shield oath bonus).

In my mind 2.1 is going to make good WARs the much preferred AoE tank. Giving a PLD access to Overpower would at least make that more balanced since they can use overpower with fight or flight to generate AoE enmity faster. But they do so while stressing their own TP pool, which seems like a valid trade off.

Sure, PLD can have Overpower if it OOTPs them in 3 uses, like our current flash does. They can regen TP while they are flashing and it'll all even out..... Can we get a TP regen ability like Riot Blade for MP as well? All things being even right? Honestly I wish they'd just take out Flash from Warrior and make us self sufficient in that department. Flash is just a token ability used because its AoE instead of Cone.

You keep saying the same things. Your basic answer for Warrior OOTP is *sit around for TP*. While we are doing that PLD is STing, riot blading, flashing, and storing up TP for their next ST pickup. If enmity generation is even in the end (or leaning toward warrior), who wants to sit around all day sitting on their thumbs because they spammed an ability a few times?

[Hitokirinomad]

Either way, you only need to wait 3 ticks when you're down to 0, and after 3 ticks you will only have to wait 2 ticks for the next 5 applications. Overpower is generating threat and doing damage to all targets while fast->riot->flash is only doing damage to one target, and probably not generating much, if any additional enmity or damage after you've bottom'd out your AoE resource pool.

This is inaccurate, since the PLD AOE threat pool is MP, which fast > riot > flash means you have enough to flash again in 2 GCD (instead of 3), and you can still, since you are bottoming your MP, continue using your weapons skills (more than the 4 Flash WAR have with a full MP bar). Bottomline, PLD have the ability to regenerate and pretty much indefinitely sustain their AOE threat, so WAR has no advantage here beyond maybe snap aggro (discounting CoS, which you shouldn't as it costs no resources whatsoever).

I know there's no TP penalty for the PLD. The TP penalty for the WAR means it's harder to play. There's nothing wrong with that in my mind. But the WAR can currently be just as effective, with the combination of buffs for overpower and using flash, infuriate->wrath moves, and just waiting to conserve TP. And he is currently much better for enmity generation at the beginning of a fight since all his buffs work to boost overpower (and berserk even boosts flash), but nothing the PLD has boosts flash (well, save the base shield oath bonus).

You again ignore CoS, and compare OP + the entire WAR Suite to Flash, and find PLD lacking. Go figure. Still, I agree that WAR is better for enmity generation at the beginning of the fight. That doesn't make them a better AOE tank though. In my mind that's fair, since they have to go through all those contortions to compared to just...hitting Flash + CoS. And after 10 flashes you fast > riot a couple of times.

In my mind 2.1 is going to make good WARs the much preferred AoE tank. Giving a PLD access to Overpower would at least make that more balanced since they can use overpower with fight or flight to generate AoE enmity faster. But they do so while stressing their own TP pool, which seems like a valid trade off.

No, because you are still forgetting the AOE blind on Flash, the 360 application. Oh and Shield Oath is more effective on multiple mobs while Defiance has no such scaling. WAR have never been the better AOE *tank*, and won't be after 2.1. Giving PLD access to OP means they will be able to perform as many OP as a WAR, then Flash + Blind 2.5 times as many times as a WAR, while also having CoS on CD and better survivability. That's your definition of a valid tradeoff? I'm not saying WAR will be a *bad* AOE tank, but they'll never be better at the tanking aspect, just because they are better on the initial emnity generation.