Please fix marauder

[Duelle]

A gladiator is already a waste of a party slot in the entirety of the designed game thus far. They're already going to have a hard time getting invites to these new parties that reward effort and innovation. If you invite a gladiator to field SP party right now, you will get less sp because of it. As bad as mrd is at tanking, a glad is even worse at DD'ing. I'm saying these horrible things now because no amount of politeness or pretending is going to hide that truth from the population eventually when **** hits the fan and it's your sp per hour on the line when the TNL's are 230,000.

Your mistake is assuming grind parties for SP. I have a feeling a good chunk of content and progression as a whole is going to be tied to dungeons...where you need a tank to get through as much as you need healers and DPS.

If you make mrd anything other than a mediocre tank then you completely eliminate gladiator's usefulness. If you enhanced gladiator's damage capability then you completely eliminate marauder's usefulness. If you make them both about the same then what is the fundamental point in even making them different at all, why don't you just make it a heavy nuking class that can heal.

You're thinking all or nothing, whereas I like to think of emphasis on player choice. The comparison to healer/nuker is pointless and baseless at best, because they're both melee classes with tanking potential. People do things for reasons other than most DPS or most damage mitigation (hence why I am a melee Red Mage enthusiast). It can remain this way provided the devs don't do something stupid like start copying the timesinks and risk/reward ratios from FFXI. Ideally, if a guy likes tanking with a two-hander instead of sword and board, then by god he should be allowed to. Specially so if it helps increase the pool of available tanks.

We need to stop this crap about choice being non-existent. Multiple playstyles per weapon class is a good thing. I just wish the Matsui had opened that option for the upcoming jobs as well.

[Peregrine]

People do things for reasons other than most DPS or most damage mitigation (hence why I am a melee Red Mage enthusiast). It can remain this way provided the devs don't do something stupid like start copying the timesinks and risk/reward ratios from FFXI.

You mistake FFXI's difficulties as unique to it. It's the same across any MMO in which your job in part defines who you are, which is mroe true to FF than in any other MMO. Red mage is a terrible idea: A mediocre mage and a mediocre meleer is what it is online. Offline sure, who cares. Yay jack of all trades. Online though, it's King of all Gimps. You refresh, haste, and dispel...or you sit in town because you're a waste of a party slot otherwise. If you so much as touch a sword, you're gone. If you even show up in a search filter with /nin as a sub, some people will never acknowledge you were born.

This is because in a world of pressure and stress, mediocrity is a liability. A class can not try to posture that it can do more than one thing kinda well. No one will care. If you're a meleer, you're a DD or you're nothing.

Marauders are the red mages of this game. Mediocre tanks, mediocre DD. In straddling the fence, they end up castrating themselves.

Red mage meleers were horrible in XI, because either being a 1st tier mage or a first tier DD was superior to trying to be both. That system is still in place.

[Duelle]

You mistake FFXI's difficulties as unique to it. It's the same across any MMO in which your job in part defines who you are, which is mroe true to FF than in any other MMO. Red mage is a terrible idea: A mediocre mage and a mediocre meleer is what it is online.

You're going off-topic, but why else do you think I have to spam these boards every couple of posts and have RDM-related stuff in my sig? I'm hoping it gets through the developers' heads that design like Red Mage's is bad in an MMO context.

Marauders are the red mages of this game. Mediocre tanks, mediocre DD. In straddling the fence, they end up castrating themselves.

Again, it won't be a problem if there are mechanics in place that allow a MRD to specialize in damage or specialize in tanking while keeping both possible roles separate from one another. FFXIV doesn't have to copy WoW's talent system to achieve this, by the way.

[Peregrine]

You're going off-topic, but why else do you think I have to spam these boards every couple of posts and have RDM-related stuff in my sig? I'm hoping it gets through the developers' heads that design like Red Mage's is bad in an MMO context.
Again, it won't be a problem if there are mechanics in place that allow a MRD to specialize in damage or specialize in tanking while keeping both possible roles separate from one another. FFXIV doesn't have to copy WoW's talent system to achieve this, by the way.

So it wouldn't be a problem if fail could somehow be gussied up and made win is what you're saying.

The CONCEPT of a jack of all trades in MMOS FAILS. Period. Inherently. It wouldn't be a problem if...if...if what? They made everyone the same and good at everything?

It will always be a stupid idea to try to make a job good at two different things. There aren't enough roles, they will pay for being good at two things by not being great at anything, and that job will be left in town.

That's how this works. Your red mage was never going to be anything more than a refresh and haste whore. Ever. Impossible. We will NEVER let you use that sword. Or sub nin. We will ALWAYS make fun of you for doing so. Because the alternative is that there is no point in being anything other than a red mage if you were actually *good* at anything.

Black mages laugh at a red mage's ability to nuke. White mages laugh at a red mage's ability to heal. meleer's laugh at a red mage's ability to strike.

Marauder will go the same way. I laugh at their ability to AoE. Glads laugh at their ability to tank. Archers laugh at their ability to DPS.

Doesn't matter if they're *okay* at all 3 things. They're gimp at all of them.

Marauder is useless. Token maimer, maybe. But that's unreliable. That's not enough to justify wasting the spot. Could just get an archer. Don't need maim then.

[Duelle]

You're now trying to derail the thread. Go make a thread about hybrids and I'll gladly debate the issue with you. In the general forums. Not here.

Again, you seem to be utterly incapable of understanding that you can have a job/class with more than one role depending on how it is set up. The line separating a tank MRD from a DPS MRD could be as simple as job traits, job abilities and gear, while still keeping both acceptable in party content.

[Vackashken]

You're now trying to derail the thread. Go make a thread about hybrids and I'll gladly debate the issue with you. In the general forums. Not here.

Again, you seem to be utterly incapable of understanding that you can have a job/class with more than one role depending on how it is set up. The line separating a tank MRD from a DPS MRD could be as simple as job traits, job abilities and gear, while still keeping both acceptable in party content.

Ah, I see peregrine has polluted the mrd forums with his tripe. Honestly, the best thing to do is simply ignore his BS and continue on with what you're talking about amongst your fellow mrds. He is an A-class troll and just likes to read what he says rather then anything else.

[Peregrine]

Ah, I see peregrine has polluted the mrd forums with his tripe. Honestly, the best thing to do is simply ignore his BS and continue on with what you're talking about amongst your fellow mrds. He is an A-class troll and just likes to read what he says rather then anything else.

Your A-class mrds are trying to paint lipstick on a pig and will be sitting in town if they don't start paying attention. Stop bragging about how poorly their job is designed. You're not going to fool anyone when a hint of stress hits this system. This continued posture is going to make people laugh at you.

Maruader is a lol class waiting for the inevitable. Period.

So will pugs, by the way. You have no use either when the system gets stressed. You're 70% of an archer, and 50% of a gladiator. Evasion tank my ass, you're a blood tank with piss-poor evasion abilities that are of no legitimate advantage, with poor gear.

At least the lancer has haste.

[Peregrine]

You're now trying to derail the thread. Go make a thread about hybrids and I'll gladly debate the issue with you. In the general forums. Not here.

Again, you seem to be utterly incapable of understanding that you can have a job/class with more than one role depending on how it is set up. The line separating a tank MRD from a DPS MRD could be as simple as job traits, job abilities and gear, while still keeping both acceptable in party content.

I'm not trying to derail the thread. Marauder is a poorly designed, gimp class right now. that is the thread. If you're some sort of marauder apologist, you're derailing it with your bunk. Mediocre tank. Mediocre DD. Mediocre CC. That's marauder--a waste of a party spot because they're bad at everything.

It's a worse fate to be poorly designed for what you're SUPPOSED to be doing than to never be designed to do it at all. That is marauder. Laughably below average at everything they were designed to do.

You're incapable of understanding that you can try to design marauder for these roles all you want and you. Will. Fail. This is what happens when you get stuck trying to make a dd that can tank and start trying to flail around the word "situational" which really means "I can make **** up in my head and pretend I'm useful."

marauder is of no use to any group right now, considering any role they could situationally fill, there is already someone or a combination better at it than they and any combination.

marauder makes teams weaker.

[Duelle]

You're incapable of understanding that you can try to design marauder for these roles all you want and you. Will. Fail. This is what happens when you get stuck trying to make a dd that can tank and start trying to flail around the word "situational" which really means "I can make **** up in my head and pretend I'm useful."

I understand that with limitations, changes in design and some interesting abilities, MRD could quite become a decent tank if built, statted, geared and "specced" (as in abilities put together to make the class tick) properly, and the same for a DD. The class, however, needs changes for that to happen. Again, you've made this clear and evident.

I'm still waiting on that hybrid thread, by the way.

what Duelle is saying is correct being able to focus on dd or tanking a bit more would really be helpful, there is a small but workable native defensive suite of skills and abilitys but things need to cross classed in to plug holes. and every thing aside from weapon skills of a offensive nature needs to be cross classed in. Now im not saying having to cross class is a bad thing. but i have yet to really find a offensive ying to mrds defensive yang. (ie where the hell is berserk)

Personally, as much as I hate to give MRD a stance mechanic, they might need one in place just to create the foundation for proper tanking and DPS builds. Then you'd have to have MRD-native abilities work in a certain way while in one stance and work differently in the other (building off what currently happens with steadfast). Granted, the cross-class abilities are really where stuff can get a little jumbled, but at the moment MRD seems to lack that extra focus needed to bring it up to par with GLA in the tank department. Admitedly, I don't know where a good MRD stands compared to other classes in terms of DPS, but if Pere's senseless rambling happens to hold an ounce of truth, they might be coming up short in that department as well.