Please fix marauder

[Peregrine]

Regardless of what they TRIED to do Marauder IS just a gladiator subjob right now.

[Arcell]

Peregrine you keep mentioning Marauder AoE like it practically doesn't exist. Marauders DO have AoE attacks they can use to hit entire groups, it's just not as effective as one or two Archer skills or mage nuke AoEs. They can still do it and if you have them along the added damage certainly if nothing else helps. Is it the best at it? No, but it can do it. Yes that does need to change but that seems to be the direction they were originally taking it in. The largest and most often used AoE range for any melee class. No matter what you say they're awful against single targets and do much better against larger groups. Best? No, but better than they did against a single target.

All in all though we'll have to see what they do with the class rebalancing and the job system in regards to Marauder.

[Peregrine]

They can still do it if we have them along, is that what the argument has become?
When you can't find a real AoE job, well you can take a marauder?

How lofty a goal. Sloppy...not even seconds.

Look, the reality of classes is that they have a finite amount of usefulness points. Archers have spent their usefulness points on strengths that matter. Marauders have not. They spent their points on things they are ultimately still gimp at and will probably always be gimp at.

Just as thief spent all its usefulness points on hate control and didn't have any more left over for what really mattered-damage...marauder is a waste of a DD, stocked with enmity-generators and impotent AoE ability.

Nothing a marauder is designed to do is a desirable trait in a meleer. It's just not.
If you want an AoE job, get a mage or an archer.
If you want a DD job, get an archer.
If you want a tank get a gladiator.

A marauder is, by your own admission, something you settle for when you can't find something better. You can argue that being good at a lot of different things matters, but as long as there is no point in taking all of them into consideration at once, there is no point in even inviting marauder at all for any singular role.

And the game just does not support, and probably can't support, a makebelieve scenario where a marauder would "shine." You feel free to come up with one and I'll give you a more optimal setup that doesn't include marauders.

Old marauders like to brag about how good they were at the former Mosshorn Dodore and haughtpox camps...and sorry. They just weren't that great, even at their best. Me AoE'ing plus a gladiator tanking better simply ate their lunches. Marauder there was marauder everywhere. Something you settled for when you didn't have a gladiator.

[Duelle]

Just as thief spent all its usefulness points on hate control and didn't have any more left over for what really mattered-damage...marauder is a waste of a DD, stocked with enmity-generators and impotent AoE ability.

Which have the potential to work if properly-tweaked. Hence why MRD can be a working AoE tank (where damage done by the tank doesn't matter because the important thing is holding aggro from the DPS) with the ability to single-target tank as well. The idea is to say "GLD and MRD are both tanks" and go from there. Again, MRD seems to be partyl based on bear Druids from WoW due to how their abilities are set up.

And the game just does not support, and probably can't support, a makebelieve scenario where a marauder would "shine." You feel free to come up with one and I'll give you a more optimal setup that doesn't include marauders.

Six mobs that need to be held in place while the AoE'rs do their thing. Mobs that won't die in the first barrage of AoE thrown at them. What those of us who played WoW consider a standard trash pull.

Aside from that, adds during a fight that need to be held in place while burned down by DPS that cannot be CC'd. It's more off-tank than anything else, but its a start. The class needs more work, regardless.

[Peregrine]

Six mobs that need to be held in place while the AoE'rs do their thing. Mobs that won't die in the first barrage of AoE thrown at them. What those of us who played WoW consider a standard trash pull.

Aside from that, adds during a fight that need to be held in place while burned down by DPS that cannot be CC'd. It's more off-tank than anything else, but its a start. The class needs more work, regardless.

Marauder is a waste of a party slot in a fight where 6 mobs are being mowed down awake, because for them to be of any use, all 6 mobs have to be within that pathetic little cone. Good luck. I'll just have a gladiator occupy them all and rotate T2 nukes on them, have archers wide volley across the entire row of them which is the most likely pattern they'll settle on to try to kill your tank, compound dot's on them, and have thaumaturges help out.

In that setting where AoE damage vastly outweighs the importance of tanking, the marauder is simply an inferior AoE'er. Better to get a real tank and real AoE'ers and leave the marauder out.

I already said that marauders who think they used to shine at the multi-mob NM camps were kidding themselves. I'm not kidding. Get a real tank and a real AoE class. Those are the people who shine at those camps, not marauder. Marauder just kindof suffices at both.

Being the best inferior job at both the required roles in a fight does not equal shining in a fight. Gladiato+1st class AoE'ers > Marauder trying to do both while the real AoE'ers spend too much time curing them.

Off-tank=useless role that no one needs you for. Sleep the adds.

Fact remains that there is NO situation where a marauder shines. The only situation that the job thinks its good at, it's not. Marauder tries to combine it's only two remotely pheasible claims into a situation where it shines, and in that situation they're just inferior at everything they do, which is tank and AoE.

Being a 2nd class tank and 2nd class AoE'er is never going to combine to get you something that's worth more than a 1st class tank and 1st class AoE'er working together. It's just not going to happen, guys. 2nd best is gimp.

[Duelle]

Marauder is a waste of a party slot in a fight where 6 mobs are being mowed down awake, because for them to be of any use, all 6 mobs have to be within that pathetic little cone. Good luck. I'll just have a gladiator occupy them all and rotate T2 nukes on them, have archers wide volley across the entire row of them which is the most likely pattern they'll settle on to try to kill your tank, compound dot's on them, and have thaumaturges help out.

I'm beginning to get the feeling that you don't bother to read any responses to your claims. Either that or you're too locked in whatever mentality it is to see that possibilities exist provided you change certain things about the class in question. Or did you somehow get the impression that I claim this possible with MRD as it currently is? Far from it, to tell you the truth.

Off-tank=useless role that no one needs you for. Sleep the adds.

Adds are immune to sleep and gravity. It is possible to create boss adds that can't be cheesed through CC and instead need to be AoE tanked.

Being a 2nd class tank and 2nd class AoE'er is never going to combine to get you something that's worth more than a 1st class tank and 1st class AoE'er working together. It's just not going to happen, guys. 2nd best is gimp.

So you agree that MRD needs to be buffed in some capacity to serve a tank or DPS role appropriately?

[Filtiarne]

One thing you need to learn about Peregrine is that they can't be reasoned with. They DO NOT listen or read posts made by others that have even the scent of disagreement on them. The immediately resort to Straw Man reasoning or Argumentum ad nauseam (trying to prove a point simply by repeating it OVER and OVER without even considering other points made) or they use their favorite type of argument; Argumentum ad hominem. Which is to skip over the argument entirely and directly and personally attack the person they are debating with. Logical Fallacies are at the very heart of every post this person has made and almost everyone would agree with that, considering the grand total of likes Peregrine has received is a whopping zero, on any post of theirs that I have had the misfortune to have read. They are a forum troll at I strongly suggest blocking them. I find my blood pressure and overall ease of reading has improved ten fold since I no longer have to wade through their psycho babble.

In relation to the original post I will agree that Mrd does need some fixing; however, its more of an issue of the battle system in general and I'm looking forward to the upcoming 1.18 patch too see what it brings. Essentially the main beef i have is that SE gave almost every class (more so Mrd obviously but besides the point) AOE ability yet they punish us for using them. Aggroing more than one mob doesn't result in more SP for managing to kill the extras, you are actually given just the opposite, no sp. Why give us all these AOE powers when you are usually going to be scolded for having used them save for a few specific leves or NM's? I predict Mrd's abilities getting an enmity/dmg over haul to make us more useful for the upcoming dungeon scenarios where (hopefully) serious crowd control and multiple sp mob kills will come into play.

[Peregrine]

I'm beginning to get the feeling that you don't bother to read any responses to your claims. Either that or you're too locked in whatever mentality it is to see that possibilities exist provided you change certain things about the class in question. Or did you somehow get the impression that I claim this possible with MRD as it currently is? Far from it, to tell you the truth.
Adds are immune to sleep and gravity. It is possible to create boss adds that can't be cheesed through CC and instead need to be AoE tanked.
So you agree that MRD needs to be buffed in some capacity to serve a tank or DPS role appropriately?

I read all your comments. You just can't come up with a justification for marauder's effectiveness. It's physically impossible, because the concept of marauder isn't new.

Doesn't matter if you can't sleep the adds or kite them. If that's the case, then you put them on the BEST tank and you get the BEST AoE'ers to kill them. Putting the gimp tank that can gimp AoE into the game is the incorrect decision in that case. He'll either die, or he'll not be able to hit 3 of the 7 enemies.

If you can't sleep the adds, even more reason for your best tank to get your job and the more dependable AoE'ers to get your job too. Marauder would be an undependable liability in such a fight.

Sorry. That's just the reality of marauder. You literally cannot come up with a scenario where it's a better choice than gladiator plus 1st-tier AoE jobs, because it doesn't exist. It never existed. Marauders never shined. Ever. Stick a gladiator where the marauder is and a real AoE job, and the marauder's shining now looks dull.

That's just how it is. Unfortunate. But marauders have to be honest with themselves. They're not good at oldschool dodore.

I'll say it again, because people still aren't getting it. You never shined at oldschool dodore. You were not that great a tank, and not that great an AoE'er.

Gonna have to deal with that reality if MRD is to move on.

[Aztecguy82]

my only beef with MRD is the low acc, i miss 50% of the time