A plea to reconsider Inner Beast changes

[Vactus]

Have my babies please! D:

(Seriously though read Kitru's post)

Damn you! I was just about to type the same thing.

[Paikis]

That is the biggest issue, it just isn't worth it to currently lose you wrath stacks on anything other than IB but then you better have infuriate up to get the stacks back. Cause if you are in a bad enough situation to cause you to use IB you REALLY NEED the healing bonus of Defiance.........

Holding your wrath stacks currently means you are doing it wrong. I'm not saying use IB on cooldown, but you should use it every time you take a large hit or drop below halfish.

Using your Wrath stacks will heal you for anywhere between 1k and up to 4k (my highest so far is 3.7k and I average 1.8-2k without Berserk) and will only cost you 7% incoming heals. Yes, I said 7%.

If you take the 15% bonus as the baseline (1.15 modifier) then you remove the bonus (1.00 modifier) you are losing 13% of the heals you could have been getting [1-(1.00/1.15)=~0.13 = 13% less heals]. As you rebuild your wrath stacks, you gain part of that healing bonus back every few seconds, you end up with 0 stacks for 5 seconds, 1 stack for 2.5 seconds, 2 stacks for 5 seconds, 3 stacks for 2.5 seconds 4 stacks for 5 seconds and then you're at full. If you take the difference between the healing you WOULD have got, and look at the average healing you DID get when you used Inner Beast, it works out to 7% less average healing over the 20 seconds.

Inner Beast is really good, and the healing bonus is really... ok. Why would you NOT use the stacks?

[Kitru]

Inner Beast is really good, and the healing bonus is really... ok. Why would you NOT use the stacks?

Because the healing you're talking about is unreliable (to get those 3.7k numbers that you're so proud of, you need to be packing a lot of STR gear, have Maim and the SE debuff active along with Berserk and *then* score a critical hit which, even with Internal Release active, has only a 35% chance of occurring) and doesn't scale with incoming damage.

When you're *not* dealing with conditionally inflated Inner Beasts and are dealing with 90% of the Inner Beasts that you *will* be using, as soon as you get into an incoming damage scenario where healing actually *matters* (if you're taking so little damage that you can keep yourself alive with Inner Beast, a WHM could keep you alive with Regen and nothing else so it's not really any kind of advantage), using Inner Beast outside of Infuriate to immediately regenerate your Wrath stacks is a *net loss* to healing efficiency. The only time that you *would* want to use IB without Infuriate is if you would immediately die without using it (e.g. you're at 3k hp after Rock Buster and don't have any other CDs) because heals don't work when you're dead.

In Coil and Titan, using Inner Beast without Infuriate is a guaranteed loss in healing efficiency. It's not a question of how effective you use it. Even if you don't waste a *single* point of healing from it (which is entirely likely), you'll still require more healing than if you just kept the Wrath stacks. That's just math (and it's been done time and time and time again to prove it).

[ChriskoOnAnotherLevel]

Problem: War is totally inferior to Pld in EVERY SINGLE WAY.

Complaint to SE: Warrior is inferior to SE please take care of this issue.

Solution: Redesign warrior with increased % mitigation, which on paper makes war viable in almost every situation that PLD is, hence fixing the problem in a way that does not make people who leveled war stab themselves in the face.

Problem: Odd Wars liked sucking because at least they sucked in a unique way.

Complaint to SE: We do not like your changes, we liked sucking uniquely.

Solution: To be determined.....

[Paikis]

using Inner Beast outside of Infuriate to immediately regenerate your Wrath stacks is a *net loss* to healing efficiency

No. It isn't.

If you're getting 2k out of Inner Beast (I haven't seen one for much less than this in quite some time. No crit, no Berserk, just Maim and SE) and using my 7% number, any time 2k is more than 7% of the incoming heals over the next 20 seconds, it is a net gain. 20 seconds is 8 GCDs and you need to receive more than 28,500 healing. 28,500/8 = 3562.5 per GCD. If you are taking enough damage that this kind of healing is needed, then YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD.

[Phreak]

I'd like to chime in and say I agree with everything the OP has posted.

I would prefer if they had left Inner beast as it is, and added the 20% DR to Steel Cyclone.

So were using an AoE on single targets, that just feels wierd. The new IB is miles ahead of the current one and (will all the other changes) will give WARs much more flavor.

If you're getting 2k out of Inner Beast (I haven't seen one for much less than this in quite some time. No crit, no Berserk, just Maim and SE)

Complete bull right there, I have almost 20 STR over you and my non crits barely get to 1500 with just Maim and SE non crit. I'd like to know how you're averaging almost a 700 damage IB without cooldowns or crits.

[Kitru]

If you're getting 2k out of Inner Beast

If you're getting 2k out of Inner Beast without Berserk or a crit, it's because you're stacking the living hell out of STR and are going to die to any burst damage for content you're not overgeared for. Gauging IB performance off of what you can manage dressed like a DPS rather than a tank isn't going to give you a legitimate view on how useful it is.

[Paikis]

If you're getting 2k out of Inner Beast without Berserk or a crit, it's because you're stacking the living hell out of STR and are going to die to any burst damage for content you're not overgeared for. Gauging IB performance off of what you can manage dressed like a DPS rather than a tank isn't going to give you a legitimate view on how useful it is.

I'm wearing Gryphonskin melded with VIT and Parry. I hardly think that counts as gearing like a DPS. I also have all my stat points in VIT. I have 8,000HP in my current setup. I use this setup to tank everything in the game, including Turn 5.

Incidentally, i took my Gryphonskin stuff off and went and smacked a dummy. 450-500 damage, no crits, no berserk. 1.5k healed. This means your healer has to be healing you for 2,680 per GCD for it to be a net loss. Again, better to be using Inner Beast.

None of this matters though, because this game uses spike damage to kill tanks. You use Inner Beast to not die to the auto-attacks immediately after the large spike, and then you're fine for 30 seconds. 15% more healing is completely irrelevant when your healer can keep you alive just fine without it.

Stop looking at averages over long periods of time, and realise that this game works based on spikes. You need the healing NOW, not spread out of the next 20 seconds. Yoshi was right, you lot do need a nice warm glass of L2P.

[Hitokirinomad]

Paikis,

Do you know why your comment is so completely, utterly fail?

"There's also the matter of Wrath and the use of Inner Beast. I believe that a lot of players are using Inner Beast to self-cure when taking a large amount of damage, but after becoming infuriated with five stacks of Wrath, players receive a 15% curing bonus, so instead of using Inner Beast right after taking heavy damage, I think it would be better to wait for heals from a white mage or scholar."

Guess where that quote is taken? In fact, don't guess, I will tell you. It's a quote from YOSHI commenting on what HIS optimum envisioned playstyle for Warrior is.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...810-30-2013%29

[Kitru]

I'm wearing Gryphonskin melded with VIT and Parry. I hardly think that counts as gearing like a DPS. I also have all my stat points in VIT. I have 8,000HP in my current setup. I use this setup to tank everything in the game, including Turn 5.

At 8k hp with Gryphonskin, you're in full i90 or equivalent. At that point, you're overgearing Coil since you don't even *need* any gear from there any more. Try talking about the use of the ability with, you know, numbers for people that *aren't* running around in full absolute BiS. I manage 1.2k on my WAR (relic + 3/5 AF2 and 70/90 jewelry mix), which is what I'm going off of.

Also, you're not comparing IB against a single healer's contributions. You should be comparing it against both healers. As soon as you get into 8 man, the value of Inner Beast *plummets* because of this. 2 healers in gear equal to yours are going to manage more than enough to render your IB heal less efficient than Wrath stacks.

As to the whole "burst v. average" thing, I look at both. Inner Beast is only useful in the sense that you describe it when you've been hit for a substantial amount of damage *without* getting healed immediately before a large spike. Any reasonable decent healer is going to have you either topped off or shielded before that first hit in the first place so Inner Beast is only there for the post-spike recovery, at which point it is *less efficient*, not to mention that, if your healers are healing you regularly like they're supposed to, IB is pretty much *always* at least some portion of wasted overheal (especially when it crit/berserks/etc.). Average mitigation is important because of healer resources. Healers inevitably run out of mp when they're not outgearing content. If you've got amazing spike survivability but no mean mitigation, your healers are going to bottom out faster.

I know how to play WAR. I also know exactly *why* the whole L2P argument is fundamentally flawed and is really only an excuse that ego-driven elitists use to justify their performance when it's really just healers making up for the inadequacies of the class that they just don't want to admit to.