WAR 2.1 Patch Notes

[Vmage]

I've always wondered why people say 25%, when the tooltip says 20%, is the tooltip incorrect? Though I have seen on some sites that it says 25%, but not entirely sure.

taking 20% less damage is the same thing as having 25% more hp

paladin has 100 HP with shield oath on, warrior has 125 HP with defiance on

they both take a 100 damage hit

paladin mitigates it to 80, survives with 20 HP, 20% of his total

warrior takes the full 100, survives with 25 HP, 20% of his total

the passive mitigation has always been balanced, it's the fact that 5x wrath only gave 15% that caused the gap, coupled with paladin cooldowns...

[Garnatian]

taking 20% less damage is the same thing as having 25% more hp

paladin has 100 HP with shield oath on, warrior has 125 HP with defiance on

they both take a 100 damage hit

paladin mitigates it to 80, survives with 20 HP, 20% of his total

warrior takes the full 100, survives with 25 HP, 20% of his total

the passive mitigation has always been balanced, it's the fact that 5x wrath only gave 15% that caused the gap, coupled with paladin cooldowns...

Yeah, I get it now.

PLD has 100 HP, WAR has 125HP and the lowest hit that can kill a PLD is a 125 damage hit, same as a WAR.

All right thanks.

[NeonC]

Woah, Holmgang just got kinda neat.

[Coramac]

What you want to compare with Inner Beast is Rampart, which is more like 4.44% to 4.48% (neglecting Infuriate). That comparison is not really that valuable either, though. There's a lot that goes into it which I'm not going to discuss here -- need to run more math and all.

This is a very poor way to look at things. These changes radically change the environment and move things in a radically different direction.

Looking at things in isolation frequently looks broken mechanics. Warriors now have two damage mitigation buffs based around skill speed.

HiirNoivr or whatever his name was is probably laughing his ass off now. While he was completely incorrect about his playstyle being on par or superior to a PLD, I'm quite confident it is completely broken now.

[PiedPiper]

snip

Actually, Shield oath and Defiance are very very close to each other (yes, pld has a slight advantage, but I'm about to explain why is quite minor).

Say a pld has 6,000 hp. The equally geared warrior has 7500 hp.

Twintania uses Deathsentence and hits for 4000.

The pld will take 3200 damage. 53% of their max hp.

The warrior takes 4000 damage. 53% of their max hp.

Scholar uses physic for 1000.

Paladin regains 1000 hp. 16.6% of total hp. They are now at 69.9% cap hp. (4176)

Warrior regains 1200 hp. 16% of hp. They are now at 69% cap hp. (5175)

At this point, twin needs to deal 5220 damage to kill the paladin, or 5175 to kill the warrior (this is a less than 1% difference in the two classes.)

As you can see, using numbers that, while rounded, are actually rather accurate to current raid conditions, defiance and shield oath are nearly equal. Shield oath has a very minor advantage (0.8%).


You are exactly right that inner beast compares complexly with rampart. That said, I do think IB will, in most raid situations, be superior.

Because of IB's very short cool down, you get to use it for every single major attack in all current encounters (all upheavals, all death sentences, even all triumvirates if you really wanted to play that game). Rampart, by comparison, is at best every other, or sometimes even every third. You could even have IB for every turn tanking ADS (since the most dangerous moments in the fight for tanks are during the transition, this is quite potent). Also, in all of these scenarios, there is no reason to think the warrior would have any problem building rage stacks. (No kiting, no dps interruption). And, since you are never more than 20 seconds away from your next IB, you can just spam it, meaning you'll get closer to 100% theory uptime where as on most of these encounters rampart needs to be held (Meaning you don't actually get its 100% theory up time).

[Genesiser]

I don't really see how IB 20% dmg shield is being compared to rampart. Pallys block ~45% of the time and parry ~25% of the time. Having IB reduce dmg by 20% for 6 seconds is basically allowing the warrior to block for 6 seconds. How rampart and IB compared when a pally uses rampart he is still able to block 45% of the attacks further reducing his dmg taken by another 20%?

[Garnatian]

I don't really see how IB 20% dmg shield is being compared to rampart. Pallys block ~45% of the time and parry ~25% of the time. Having IB reduce dmg by 20% for 6 seconds is basically allowing the warrior to block for 6 seconds. How rampart and IB compared when a pally uses rampart he is still able to block 45% of the attacks further reducing his dmg taken by another 20%?

Where did you get the 45% chance to block?

[whiskeybravo]

I'll be lv50 Warrior tonight, my main class is WHM.. I have a question:

Does Holmgang (as of this moment) have any real use? I've tried using a few times to counter Pacification but it didn't really seem to work on any bosses. (It's been a while since i actually used it so I don't remember which bosses specifically). I started to just use the stun attack since that's about the only move available while Pacified.

That being said I am interested to see how the updates affect gameplay, though I'm by no means on the coil with either class. Damn Titan Hard Mode.. XD

[Genesiser]

Where did you get the 45% chance to block?

Looking at different parses when I run dungeons with different pally tanks. A friend of mine asked me to check it out because he was curious as to how often a pally blocks and parries vs his warriors only parry.

[Gamemako]

I don't think it's quite fair comparing Rampart to IB/Storm's Path mostly because you aren't going to use the ability guaranteed as soon as it comes off CD, while there is no reason not to use IB/Storm's Path whenever available. That and it's use will not differ from fight to fight, while things like Block/Parry will depending on what abilities the mob uses.

You aren't using Inner Beast to take on one autoattack before a Landslide swing, either. That would be a waste. You're using Inner Beast right before the Mountain Buster, so that you take out a significant amount of damage from the attack. Hell, you never used Inner Beast on cooldown -- you just used it after the attack instead of before.

As you can see, using numbers that, while rounded, are actually rather accurate to current raid conditions, defiance and shield oath are nearly equal. Shield oath has a very minor advantage (0.8%).

You could just as well say the damage is 7499, and that PLD is therefore 4.16% ahead. Neither are a meaningful result. A healing bonus will not allow your tank to survive a big hit, and neither bonus is relevant to that. The more accurate comparison is that Shield Oath reduces the amount of healing required by 20% while Defiance reduces it by 16.667%. Natively, a healer has to spend 4.16% more time and MP healing. You could then include other aspects, such as blocking, self-healing, and the net effect of mitigation abilities. Again, there's a lot to it.

//EDIT:

Does Holmgang (as of this moment) have any real use?

Right now, not much. You can lock down the second WP boss with it when it runs off. It's pretty blah right now.