Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

[LippBR]

Thanks Yoshida!

[Amas]

What math? A retarded idiot can say what the effect of these changes will have on a WAR in an actual tanking situation(if they ever really tanked on WAR...). Considering he was doing "ok" when played right, these changes completely blew him out of proportion. I was expecting tweaks to already existing buffs and changes to self heals etc. Not the whole class and their "way of tanking" being changed, while still maintaining almost all the "base" benefits he had. All he lost was self heal capabilities, which weren't his "omg I can't tank w/o these" skills anyway and instead he gained passive buffs and overall damage mitigation which puts him ahead quite a bit.

Changing their whole "way of tanking" was essential to ever balancing PLD vs WAR. Self-healing is a great mechanic in theory that is virtually impossible to balance across multiple different types and levels of content. DR is a much easier thing to balance and scale.

I am concerned that ultimate mitigation will need to be tweaked, but I think it is farcical to believe that 2.1 will make WAR ascendant and sideline PLD. Coil will remain top-tier for another 3-4 months, and after BRD gets nerfed in 2.1, a 1PLD+1BRD silencing set for turns 1 and 2 will likely be the go-to setup. For turn 4 PLD will remain better at gathering the trash since nothing is being done about Overpower's TP inefficiency (and since Ballad is almost a given anyway for healer MP longevity at certain points, PLD AoE threat longevity is effectively infinite, while WAR's is not and will not be). PLD will only ever be sidelined if there are no concrete benefits to Silence, 0CD on-GCD Stun, effectively limitless AoE threat generation, or Hallowed Ground.

I think the DPS differences are vastly overstated (and my opinion is backed up by numerous T5 parses), and threat disparities are being weighted far too heavily. Even in a "worst case" scenario of 2 BRD + 2 BLM/SMN on turn 2 taking the left path, threat is a non-issue. That's about as big of a disadvantage as a tank will ever be facing, and it's not big enough to matter.

[Bigby]

Why won't you use unchained? its fun~ got a crit 800-something BB while using that and internal release once on Antaboga, I lurv it
Edit: For real though, seems like a waste not to use it, esp in the start of boss fights, when you'll usually have a full five stacks of wrath from previous trash packs.

Sorry my post wasn't clear, my options are under the quotes, so Unchained = great, Steel Cyclone = still wont use.

Edit: I fixed the formatting of my old post.

[Kosmos992k]

I'll tell you why. So WARs can be better tanks. Why penalize a class just because it has mitigation skills? Are you saying we should remove PLD dmg so it is less like a WAR? That is stupid.

It already is less than warrior when you're using shield oath which 95% of PLD are using. You want stupid? stupid is the number of people in this topic who spew hate for one class or another. How stupid and juvenile is it to have to spew hate at someone for playing a different class/ I'm not just talking about WAR hating on PLD, I'm talking PLD hating on WAR as well. There should be no sides to this debate because both classes SHOULD be distinct enough to a) have a full role in battle, b) be viable as tanks, and c) neither should confer an advantage over the other.

These changes appear to diminish one class by significantly buffing another. As the community has proven, any perceived weakness in the tank results in another class being used. So Warriors were discriminated against prior to 2.1, after it will be Paladins discriminated against. IMO, if WAR were given the healing and damage buffs it would re-enforce it's role as the tank that uses overwhelming power and vitality to survive the spotlight in battle, leaving the Paladin the role of surviving that spotlight by mitigating damage through defensive skills.

[Ryios]

Snip

The storm's path tweak is fine, did you even read it? It said it lowers the dmg dealt of enemies, not you. The ability itself will do the same dmg and all the other effects except it costs 10tp less and it does a debuff to target's you hit. Similar to Storm's Eye which lowers slashing resistance of targets.

[Nero]

Producer and director Yoshi-P here.

Good Evening.

I understand that all our warriors out there are eager to know what patch 2.1 has in store for them. While we’re still in the testing stages, I’d like to give you a preview of what we have planned. Please keep in mind that warrior is still being tested in all encounters available in 2.1, and the following information is subject to change.

First of all there are also Warriors which do like Warrior the way it is. I tank everything including Turn 5 just fine, the only tricky turn is Turn 4, which is also doable but not impossible. So is there really a need to buff Warrior? No, i do not think so. Does it need changes? Probably, so people have a better understanding how it works.

Brutal Swing

- Recast time will be reduced from 30 to 20 seconds, increasing the frequency with which players can stun foes.

That is a good change.

Overpower

- Enmity generated by this skill has been increased.

Why? I hardly have Problems to hold hate if i combine Overpower with Flash and several other Skills. So why would SE want to increase the Enmity generated? Lowering the TP-Cost from Overpower would have been the better choice.

Storm's Eye

- TP cost will be reduced from 70 to 60.

This.. is pointless.

Storm's Path

- TP cost will be reduced from 90 to 60.
- This skill will also reduce damage dealt by enemies for a period of time.

TP-Cost reduce here as well? Another Skill were it does not matter, since this Combo like SE Combo hardly will eat your TP up. The good part about it is the def-buff. The only Ability which is really a Problem if you "overuse" it is Overpower, everything else is just fine even in really long fights. I really do not know TP Issues on WAR, no matter what i tank.

Holmgang

- Range will be increased from 3 yalms to 6, to make the skill more effective.
- This skill will now pull enemies toward your character.
- When using this skill, a player's HP cannot be reduced lower than 1.
- The animation for this skill will be revised. (See screenshot above)

Interesting Change and makes Holmgang actually valuable.

Vengeance

- This skill will also reduce damage taken by 30%.

Another Def-Buff. Great, valuable, but needed? Don't make WAR OP, or noone will go PLD anymore.

Mercy Stroke

- Recast time will be reduced from 60 to 40 seconds, improving ease of use.

Hm...

Thrill of Battle

- Effect duration will be extended from 10 to 20 seconds.

This is actually something i wanted and talked about allready for weeks in the FC.

Defiance

- Enmity generated by this skill will be increased.
- This skill will also increase HP recovery via curing magic by 20%.

Huh? Hold on.. 20% + the allready existing 15% from Wrath V?

Wrath

- The improved healing effect granted by Wrath will be removed. Instead, the improved healing effect will be granted by Defiance.

Hmm.. So you have +20% all the Time, instead of 3% per Wrath, which made Wrath-Stacking actually valuable and needed, so people would not blast their Wrath V right away without thinking about it... That is "dumbing" it down.

Inner Beast

- Due to overall balance changes, HP absorbed by damage dealt will be reduced from 300% to 100%
- Damage taken will be reduced by 20% for 6 seconds.

Def-Buff once more.

Steel Cyclone

- This skill will generate increased enmity.

So AoE Enmity? Why increase the Enmity generated by Overpower in first Place, if you could increase it with Steel Cyclone? Seems kind of pointless or actually giving Warrior more Enmity Build than it needs.

Unchained

- Recast time will be reduced from 180 to 120 seconds, improving ease of use.

Hm.. nothing Game-Breaking really.

While I regret having to keep you waiting, I am confident these changes, along with the numerous additions we have planned for patch 2.1, will be well worth your patience.

I dont know if it will be worth it. Currently it looks like you are giving Warrior way too much power, making PLD look like a bad choice since PLD lacks the Self HP-Recovery and less Damage dealt.

[Ehayte]

Saved for the right situations? Are you somehow new to WAR tanking? . . .

Yup, everything you said is true. You can probably use IB every 30-40 seconds without sweating...certainly every 60s. That's my point, its not 20% for 6s every 20s = 6% extra mitigation. Its still going to be used as an active skill that you will have to sit on sometimes. If you DON'T save that for the right situations...I'm not sure...if you would be...very good.

I'm not saying its as severe as it was, just that you are still probably going to hold wrath for an extra few seconds between IBs. If you want to "guarantee" a 20% reduction to a big hit, you don't get that 20% reduction on the smaller hits.

[Terius]

Loving the tears guys.

We'll want to take one of each now, we won't be saying 'no' to PLD's either.

[Maqaqa]

Its still going to be used as an active skill that you will have to sit on sometimes. If you DON'T save that for the right situations...I'm not sure...if you would be...very good.

Its too early to say, but i think i agree.
IB isnt going to be spammed as soon as its up, its going to be used to absorb BIG hits.

[Amyas]

Sorry my post wasn't clear, my options are under the quotes, so Unchained = great, Steel Cyclone = still wont use.

Edit: I fixed the formatting of my old post.

Ah, I see. I use SC on trash, just if I blow all the cooldowns though lol. Nothing like seeing all those occasional crits for around 500, plus it looks cool Use it on the first boss in AK too, only when a golem would die from it though.