Time Mage, Geomancer, Dark Knight, Templar, Berserker proposals

[Tzain]

I'm not too keen on Astrologist as a job, seeing that they seem to be fairly common in Ishgard, and jobs tend to be long-forgotten disciplines.

I name the design last. So I'm never tied to it. I decided to create something based around Thunderstorm procs rather than firestarter.

Plus, Paladins aren't long-forgotten, they're just rare because they didn't want Adventurers to join.

As for your Green Mage idea. The idea of stacking marks (sigils?) on a target could have some legs. Especially given a "stack and consume" mechanic. I actually think you'd be better off baking these into the Astrologist class and making it a pre-30 healer. Stack offense DOTs and consume for Burst, Stack Defensive Marks and Consume for Burst. Maybe a Consume for burst and also a consume for spreading? Like stacking Marks on the Tank and then move them from the Tank to all the rest of the group. Has a nice "Risk vs Reward" idea behind it and the timing works well with Cleric Stance (or something like it). Generally speaking though, don't use Max Range. It's just going to inflict pain on you. if you're spreading them around, make the healing range basically twice the range of Medica II if the point of spread is the tank, preferably though, base the spread range on yourself and match the range to Medica II.
Then at 30 you can split it into a DMG focused aspect and a Healer focused aspect, but both of the basics are all there in the class itself.

So the class might be 1-30 baseline dps/heals, 30-50 debuffs and utility. Then the Jobs take the heals and dps respectively and ramp them up?

All in all it feels a lot like how I played my Plant based healer in DCUO. I stacked the Regens and then consumed them for Burst healing. the difference there was, the regen was an aftereffect of the heal but given how FFXIV works, I don't think it's a problem.

EDIT: Oh, and for a weapon, how bout a sweet crystal ball? Bringing back the old school FF1!

[Duelle]

As for your Green Mage idea. The idea of stacking marks (sigils?) on a target could have some legs. Especially given a "stack and consume" mechanic.

That was the idea. You set up marks on allies then use convergence to detonate them. I was having a hard time figuring out what the detonate effects would be. Well, other than "bigger heal". For example, I was thinking Mira would be a HoT effect but if you detonate it it becomes a burst heal for the amount remaining in the HoT. It would make that aspect of healing reactive. Of course, the major hurdle is healing throughput and how it compares to WHM and SCH.

I actually think you'd be better off baking these into the Astrologist class and making it a pre-30 healer. Stack offense DOTs and consume for Burst, Stack Defensive Marks and Consume for Burst.

While I agree that we need another baseline healing class, we've yet to see how far the devs are willing to go in drawing a second job from CNJ, which is why I used a similar approach to what the devs took with ACN.

All in all it feels a lot like how I played my Plant based healer in DCUO. I stacked the Regens and then consumed them for Burst healing. the difference there was, the regen was an aftereffect of the heal but given how FFXIV works, I don't think it's a problem.

Mine was more inspired by resto druids, which is why I suggested Stimulate and its synergy with Mira/Alfirk (similar to how Nourish and Lifebloom synergize).

Oh, and for a weapon, how bout a sweet crystal ball?

Crystal balls imply divination, which the astrologists of Ishgard have already mentioned they have nothing to do with. Their carrying grimoires actually makes sense, but I would not want a class overlaping with arcanists. I would have suggested astrolabes but as I said, we already have a THM weapon bearing that name. A portable version of armillary spheres may work, IMO.

[Tzain]

That was the idea. You set up marks on allies then use convergence to detonate them. I was having a hard time figuring out what the detonate effects would be. Well, other than "bigger heal". For example, I was thinking Mira would be a HoT effect but if you detonate it it becomes a burst heal for the amount remaining in the HoT. It would make that aspect of healing reactive. Of course, the major hurdle is healing throughput and how it compares to WHM and SCH.
.

I'm gonna toss out some fake numbers for comparison to white mage.
Regen is 150 potency, Cure is 400, Cure II is 650, Cure III is...LOL@CureIII.
If Mira is a stacking HOT of 100 potency, 2 beats a Regen and 5 beats Cure I spam, 7 beats a cure II spam, but that *might* be overkill. (I'm assuming maim/mend trait is present on both, I'm also not including Cure III because it's currently useless.)
If you have a trigger spell that detonates the single target HOT stack into a Group heal, then a 3 stack = Medica spam and a 4 = Medica II spam (assuming you'd get 2 ticks of regen from the medica II effect). I might even suggest having the detonate spread HALF the consumed HoT stack to all other group members (rounded up) just to keep it somewhat balanced.


I wouldn't worry about matching power with a white mage. This mechanic is frankly able to blow them out of the water once the stack hits 4 or 5. The problem is that the Green Mage has to ramp up, which is exactly what you would expect. I'd also avoid giving them any shielding outside of cross class Eye for an Eye and Stone Skin. Shielding + regen is basically the healing holy grail, which is fine IF it takes 2 healers to pull it off. (See: Scholar/White Mage Synergy)

In fact, I think the burst detonation is utterly overkill. If anything, you're going to need burst at the START of the encounter. So you'd need ways to ramp up the stack. A 5 minute cooldown instant 5 stack for a single target would cover the need pretty nicely, adjust the cooldown as needed for balance and could be used in conjunction with the Group detonation. Of course, one well placed BLM Sleep would basically have the same effect as far as buying you time to get ramped up, so the cooldown isn't something that needs to be used EVERY pull. Once a tank realizes that the early part is THE most dangerous part, Mitigation cooldown usage should match up and work it all out.

A lack of Burst also adds some Green/white Synergy, Because if there is one thing a White Mage can do, it's burst some HP, so if Burst is the Green Mage weakness, the White Mage bringing Granite skin and Burst heals is a heck of a team.

Now mix that with some offensive debuffs to decrease the damage output of the enemy and some stance dancing for DOTs and you're gonna be one busy busy caster (in a good way). Which is why I mentioned going 1-30 HOT/DOT and 30-50 debuff for the class itself. Then sticking some of the advanced stuff (like the insta-stack) into the job.

If anything, you're going to need to fill slots rather than struggling to find enough places. And that's a really good place to be on a design.

Cheers.

[Duelle]

Before I reply, some more notes:

- Up to 3 Green Mage marks can be stacked on one target. Be it the same or different marks.
- Convergence detonates the marks and affect only the marked target.
- Divergence detonates the marks and affect the marked target and all mobs/allies near it at half power.
- Effectively, if you're gonna burst heal the tank you'll be stacking up Mira to mitigate the damage the tank is taking, but if the tank gets crit or something else happens you can detonate your three stacks for a burst heal.
- Alfirk is in an odd spot because I do know healers need an instant heal as well as HoTs. My idea for it was originally a group heal that marks you primary target but heals everyone for a bit HP, then when detonated heals the group for even more HP. I chose to make it into a single-target heal that marks the target because then I remembered I gave AST Divergence.
- To ensure your 18-second duration marks don't fall off, you can use Stimulate to refresh their duration. Stimulate's heal effect would be minor even at max stacks.
- Asterism would be a shortcut to quickly stacking three marks. I did neglect to mention that a GRM's marks are affected by Asterism.
- Aside from healing output, I am concerned with how fast a GRM would be able to get their stuff set up. With healing aggro working the way it does, you can't even pre-HoT a tank before the pull because it'll mess up positioning as the tank tries to establish hate. This means a GRM would have to wait until after the pull in order to start setting things up, needing at least 8 seconds to ramp up their stacks on one target.
- I was thinking of changing Divergence into an ability that spreads marks to other mobs/allies (this would affect AST, TIM and GRM). Problem is that I think it would run into the Living Bomb problem of requiring a target limit in order to not be OP. Not to mention that since Convergence is single target, the GRM would have to target-swap like crazy to make sure they're getting the most out of their stacks.

If Mira is a stacking HOT of 100 potency, 2 beats a Regen and 5 beats Cure I spam, 7 beats a cure II spam, but that *might* be overkill.

So given the 3-stack limit, using only that one mark would put GRM behind a Cure 1-spamming WHM.

The problem is that the Green Mage has to ramp up, which is exactly what you would expect. I'd also avoid giving them any shielding outside of cross class Eye for an Eye and Stone Skin. Shielding + regen is basically the healing holy grail, which is fine IF it takes 2 healers to pull it off. (See: Scholar/White Mage Synergy)

Agreed. Damage shields were the furthes thing from my mind when I was typing up my suggestion.

In fact, I think the burst detonation is utterly overkill. If anything, you're going to need burst at the START of the encounter.

I was using the reasoning behind how Wrath stacks work for WAR. You built up, maintain/hold on to stacks until you need them, then have to build up stacks when you use them up. The only difference is that a GRM can refresh their stacks at will. As far as for why GRM needs some burst, it's because they also need to be able to solo heal 4-man dungeons, and an entirely HoT-reliant healer wouldn't be able to do much. Even SCH has some direct heals (granted, they do come from Eos). WHM would still have the advantage of not needing ramp up to get their burst heals out, which I felt was a decent trade-off.

Now mix that with some offensive debuffs to decrease the damage output of the enemy and some stance dancing for DOTs and you're gonna be one busy busy caster (in a good way). Which is why I mentioned going 1-30 HOT/DOT and 30-50 debuff for the class itself. Then sticking some of the advanced stuff (like the insta-stack) into the job.

I'm iffy on too much utility seeing that the current design doesn't have a lot of debuffs per se. Melee DPS's debuffs are situational for the most part. BLM has Sleep and Lethargy, SMN has Virus. In the case of AST/TIM/GRN, you have Dispel, Wezen (Bind) and Cujam (Aoe Stun).

It's not like the current classes have a ton of debuffs to go around, and I wanted to stay within those guidelines.