Time Mage, Geomancer, Dark Knight, Templar, Berserker proposals

[Tzain]

Got another one.
Astrologist - Consistant Damage Dealer (sub conjurer [Cure/Fluid Aura/Aero] and Archer [raging strikes/quelling strikes]
THM that focuses more on the Thunderstorm mechanic than the Firestarter one. The idea being that they could stack and spread DOT damage using their thunder spells.
Subtle Flux (self buff): Allow Thunder I, II, and III to stack their damage (the dots of each spell are independent. Triples the chance of Thunderstorm procs per Thunder stack. Subtle Flux prevents the growth and refresh of Astral Fire but does not remove astral fire effects already in effect.
Pulse: Spreads any Thunder effects to nearby enemies. 15% chance to refresh their timers
Electrocution – Consumes all available thunder dots on target and does immediate damage related to the thunders consumed. If this attack kills the enemy, the casters mp is fully restored. (off GCD and doesn’t trigger GCD)
Charged Web: persistant ground effect. Any enemies inside the effect take damage and paralyze is inflicted.
Ability 5: I’m not sure here, I think I need something defensive in the mix?

[MartaDemireux]

Updated OP with a whole new idea for Geomancer to make use of the unused Tornado/Quake/Flood abilities that a DPS CNJ job could learn. I still really like my original idea but I really like my new one too so I kept both up. They both function the same as well, being a DPS with a strong focus in AoE.

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I like the idea of a job primarily using Thunder but not sure how balanced that would be in the long run. It honestly sounds a lot like SMN to me overall. It would be interesting to see if such a system of inhibiting AF/UI could turn a THM into a healer somehow though. But as someone said earlier, it's really less about inhibiting the mechanic and more about working with it.

[Tzain]

Updated OP with a whole new idea for Geomancer to make use of the unused Tornado/Quake/Flood abilities that a DPS CNJ job could learn. I still really like my original idea but I really like my new one too so I kept both up. They both function the same as well, being a DPS with a strong focus in AoE.



I like the idea of a job primarily using Thunder but not sure how balanced that would be in the long run. It honestly sounds a lot like SMN to me overall. It would be interesting to see if such a system of inhibiting AF/UI could turn a THM into a healer somehow though. But as someone said earlier, it's really less about inhibiting the mechanic and more about working with it.

It is similar to the Summoner in that it uses DOT's, I like DOT classes....problem is I HATE managing Pets. Since they are both coming from that position it's hard not to overlap. Especially when many of the summoner ideas are really good! Electrocution oddly enough is actually more based on the MRD ability Mercy Blade. Charged Web is a variant on how the BLM ability Freeze SHOULD work.

The removal of the Astral Fire was a last minute adjustment for balance. The fact is that unless the Firestarter/AFIII mechanic was removed/replaced, the job was horribly OP compared to the BLM (which is hard not to do given how inherently unimpressive BLM is over THM). I didn't like the idea of removing the Firestarter mechanic since it feels like punishment, so I felt that removing the burn/regen cycle was the next best idea. You can still use Fire1>FireIII, but it's not quite as powerful without the astral fire to buff it up. And with thunderstorm procs being free, proper DOT maintainence should be light on Mana.

All this feeds into the main advantage of the job. Speed and Mobility. After the initial DOT stack you can maintain the offense using thunderstorm instant casts rather than planting your feet and rolling into a burn cycle. Which is one of the reasons why Electrocution is interesting, you're basically doing instant damage, but the consumption of the DOTs means you're going to have to sit still and stack them up again.

[Tzain]

It would be interesting to see if such a system of inhibiting AF/UI could turn a THM into a healer somehow though. But as someone said earlier, it's really less about inhibiting the mechanic and more about working with it.

On BLM, I have access to two things. 1 is Umbral Ice, the other is a cross Class Physic spell. Between these two abilities, I can essentially spam a heal spell forever. I also have access to Healer Gear, so if I REALLY wanted to, I could easily make a BLM into a pseudo healer with little effort. Just don't get poisoned.

If I was creating a job for this, all I'd really have to do is sub CNJ and add cross class Esuna and Cure II. Umbral Ice + Cure/Cure II + Esuna really takes care of about 90% of all healing situations. Cleric stance being present would let you stance dance back into your THM skills with little effort and go into a burn cycle.

So that's a core of a THM healer without even using a single job skill. So there's quite a bit of leeway here. So let's check the overlap....

THM + CNJ
Spam spells w/procs: Cure/Fire
DOTs: Aero/Thunder
MP Regen: Blizzard-line
CC: Sleep/repose

DOT's aren't really going to help here, this isn't going to be subtle. Just pure smash mouth healing. So we end up with two options.

Either Cure spells trigger Astral Fire, or Cure Spells trigger Umbral Ice. Both have very different playstyles.

If Cure and Fire both trigger AF, then the player has to be super careful of mana burning at the wrong time and not having anything left for heals. Also, having to heal too aggressively would end up leaving the player out of mana very fast.
If Cure triggers Umbral Ice though, the player is basically alternating between two cycles, Healing/Regen and Damage/Burn. I think this is the more group friendly, but also dangerously close to overpowered as the resource for your healing is essentially neverending.

Of course, Cure could be left off the cycles entirely.....but where would the fun be in that!

The other interesting thing is the THM AE Sleep. Sleep is essentially a situational heal that prevents 100% of incoming damage. When considered like that, it's crazy powerful and I long ago learned that most dungeon content is designed for this. Rarely do you have 3 unsleepable mobs that hit really hard. So if you're looking for preventative healing, that's your boy.

Seems pretty easy all things considered.

[ZodiacSoldier]

Current Classes
GLA - Will get Dark Knight as a DPS class, Cecil was a DRK that used sword and shield, it wasn't until the XI where they got to use Scythe. I also think its a nice contrast to have them opposite of PLDs.

MRD - Possibly Berserker or Beastmaster for their DPS Jobs, only Jobs I can think of that used axe styled weapons.

PUG - Puppetmaster for a second DPS Job that uses a pet, they already have puppets in game, will most likely be another DPS class but provides utility as well.

ARC - Ranger of course, a pure DPS Job for our archers.

LNC - Templar - Tank Job like you said, think its a great idea

CNJ - Geomancer - A DPS class since CNJ already focus on nature and their surroundings, Geomancer will be a great fit.

THM - Time Mage - Instead of DPS, A healing class that have alot of buffs and provide HOTs.

ACN - Already have two

New Classes-
Musketeer - (Guns) Already have a guild in LL, will have Corsair which plays like BRD and Chemist which is a healing class that uses potion to heal and provide other useful abilities.

Duelist - (Rapiers and shield) A melee caster class that uses sword and magic. Jobs will be Red Mage which is a healer that use magic to enhance their parties defense and heals. And Blue Mage a melee DPS that use magic to supplement their offence.

Soldier - (uses Great Swords) A melee Tank that can use rune magic. Jobs will be Rune Fencer which is a tank that is specialize to tank spells. Mystic Knight - DPS class that have alot magic buffs and status effects.

Rogue - (Dual Daggers) A melee DPS class, SE already hinted they plan to add a scout class to the game. Jobs will be Thief a melee DPS class and Dancer a melee DPS that provides buff's like BRD class or possibly a healing class

Ronin - (Dual Katanas) Gets Samurai a DPS class, Ninja a evasion style tanking class.


As you can see alot are from FFXI, since SE already have a based, it may be easier to implement jobs from the previous games.

[Gamemako]

Berserker comes from MRD, not PGL... so I think you misunderstood that.

Clearly so, lol. I see you've made considerable changes. I'll look it over and give some feedback.

I'm not sure how you conclude that TMP wouldn't be able to tank though. TMP stats wouldn't be equal to a DRG's just as SCH's aren't equal to SMN's.

Stats won't do it. You need mitigation of some sort, either before or after the hit. You cannot rely on Bonecrusher at all because it's a combo effect -- you'd have to sit on it until an enemy is about it hit you (enmity problems ahead!), and if it gets the autoattack before the Mountain Buster, you're still toast. As a primary mitigation method, it doesn't scale to multiple opponents, so when you've got 4 mobs on you, you're dead meat.

Your Discipline ability boosts damage, for whatever reason, when damage doesn't keep you alive. Lifebreak has the same problem. These need to be refocused to boost survival, which is where your design is lacking. Faith is just a hyrbird of Convalesce and Thrill of Battle, minus the skill synergy. You don't have continuous mitigation in any sense at all, and you have no +eHP stance. You'll have the lowest eHP of the tanks, no continuous mitigation whatsoever (healers need at least 20% more MP to heal you just as a baseline), poor burst mitigation, extreme timing requirements for what you do have, and limited enmity. You get the luxury of being a PLD for 1/4 of the time through Blood for Blood, which isn't going to make you much of a tank. You need to justify how your tank is fulfilling party needs. How is it surviving big his and extended bursts? How is it reducing healing requirements?

On BLM, I have access to two things. 1 is Umbral Ice, the other is a cross Class Physic spell. Between these two abilities, I can essentially spam a heal spell forever. I also have access to Healer Gear, so if I REALLY wanted to, I could easily make a BLM into a pseudo healer with little effort. Just don't get poisoned.

That's just somebody spamming a gimped Cure rather than a healer. It's no different than calling a PLD a healer with access to "unlimited" MP through Riot Blade and "healer" gear through MND melds (haha, mind melds).

The ideas you've suggested are a lot of impossible mechanics. You cannot have a cross-class ability trigger a class-unique proc. You lack a way to move into UI mode while healing, nor is UI going to make you an effective healer. Your burst healing would be terrible and you'd have no AoE heals. You cannot cross-class CureII due to being a class-quest ability, not to mention that your job would be utterly unusable at the level 15 requirement for CNJ. CNJ does not even have Esuna until 18. Your job would be uniquely unusable from the get-go, something no current class has (and I'd wager, no future class will have). You'd need to cross-class 5 abilities (Cure/II, Esuna, Raise, Protect) at level 30, where you have 3 cross-class slots. Basically, it wouldn't work.

I'm not really opposed to requiring cross-class abilities, and a THM healer isn't necessarily totally impossible, but it will require some serious ability hijacking. It's vastly more complex than you're suggesting. You can give a baseline cross-class heal, and hijack AF/UI for MP regen and burst healing. It's not really about fitting things into level 50, either; it's fitting things into level 30. If you just cared about level 50, you could do Heal/AF (baseline HoT), Heal2/AF (AoE), and Heal3/AF (burst), Cleanse, and Raise. Assume cross-class Cure for UI heals. Pretty much covers your bases, sans aggro drop. Might require a bit of effort dealing with Transpose -- CD would probably have to be cut in half at least. Problem is, you need those abilities (sans cleanse) at level 30.

[MartaDemireux]

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Thanks for bringing Discipline up. That's a remnant from before and I'm going to change it up a bit. You'll see in "changes to LNC" that all direction based attacks no longer require the direction and instead increase enmity. Before I had that, Discipline had the increased damage to increase their enmity. So they shouldn't really have enmity problems (especially when paired with cross class). Though I think I'll add some increased enmity to Heavy Thrust as well.

Under the same section you'll see the "Heavy Thrust" buff gives 5% damage reduction. As the attack is also a directional based one it has increased enmity and is also used in combo with Bonecrusher so will be maintained at all times, in addition to being on heavy armor sets. So they do have mitigation but Discipline will be changed so they have more. They also get their Keen Flurry and Life surge and the from LNC of course. Bonecrusher does need some work though I agree.

Changes being made to OP:
Templar:
Bonecrusher: Counter will work only for auto-attacks but be guaranteed and have a duration of 15s. Only counters attacks originating from in front of the user. Cannot overwrite itself. Debuff in place for 10 seconds after it wears off that prevents its re-application.
Discipline: This now will provide a flat 35% damage reduction and 35% increased parry rate as well as a minor Regen effect.
Heavy Thrust: In addition to it's 5% damage reduction it will increase the enmity of all actions while in effect.
Lifebreaker: Will now also heal user, potency requirements unchanged. If Phlebotomize damage is critical there is a 10% chance recast timer will reset.

Dark Knight:
Darkness: Fleshed out the details of this. Included it in a combo with Circle of Scorn.

[Vevi]

based from Mr. ZodiacSoldier's post

my ideas for new jobs (I don't have any idea how all of this can be possible tho)

GLD - oh lawd help me here, no idea. Only thing that comes out to mind is a Mystic Knight which can be a spell-weapon based DPS. (still sad to know that pallys can't heal)
MRD - Berserker as DPS option for tanky MRDs, give them the ability to dual wield axes and they will look scary.
PUG - Puppermaster that heals based on FFXI
LNC - Dark Knight as DPS, okay why not from GLD? because I think scythes from FFXI are sexier imo (scythes should be DRK exclusive)
ARC - Ranger for a PURE DPS class because of popular demand
CNJ - Geomancer as DPS class but pls no stone spamming lol
THM - Time Mage as a healing class because of lack of healers
ACN - already had 2 jobs though I want a Beastmaster come from here utilizing pet skills (should have been SMN)

we know how badly this game needs tanks so introducing new classes:

Katana-wielding class that can be a Samurai (tank) or Ninja (eva-based tank or DPS)
Rapier + Shield wielding class that can be a Red Mage (DPS) or Blue Mage (DPS) both can be very hard to implement though
Dagger-wielding class that can be a Thief (stealth DPS) or Dancer as healing class because of lack of healers OR bard-like support DPS but I prefer them healing, seems odd but I can also see them using fists from PUG
Gun-wielding class that can be a Corsair (DPS) or Chemist that heals (no not Alchemist)

[MariusAndre]

I'd like to see a scout/rogue class. Imagine a Lala running around with daggers slicing stuff with insane DPS. That would be frickin' awesome.

[Gamemako]

You'll see in "changes to LNC" that all direction based attacks no longer require the direction and instead increase enmity... Though I think I'll add some increased enmity to Heavy Thrust as well.

Heavy Thrust and Impulse Drive are your only two positional abilities. You just don't have nearly enough enmity through that to hold enmity. Even with 1.5x Defiance plus 1x/3x/5x combo on high-potency attacks, you're barely holding enmity against an ilvl90 MNK with a fresh 50 WAR. Seriously, spamming BB combo will put you at about a 10% lead. BB combo is 3600 enmity-potency with a 25% damage penalty. Either Heavy Thrust is giving you a 4x enmity modifier or you're dead in the water. You're also relying solely on cross-class Flash for AoE enmity and have no access at all to ranged enmity.

You need enmity on your pull. You will never be an acceptable tank without it. If you had a 4x enmity modifier on Piercing Talon and added a 3x on top of that, you'd have 12x enmity on it, or more enmity than BB puts out in a combo hit. Pick your poison, really. For AoE enmity, Ring of Thorns and Doom Spike come too late to be primary enmity generators -- you need it at 30, so you're stuck with Flash. I don't see a good way forward for a level 30 LNC tank except to make Full Thrust combo your standard enmity combo, Piercing Talon a standard pull, and give a unique AoE enmity move at 30. You can afford to put off a tanking stance until 35 or 40. PLD doesn't have one until 40 and has Rampart as its most potent cooldown until Convalesce trait at 32 and Sentinel at 38.

Note, though, that you cannot afford to make a tank which is weaker at tanking and offers higher damage. You're the tank, or you're dumped off the team. In the interest of balance, you pretty much have to make one of your abilities into a tanking stance. Your gear is going to add +200 strength, so even if you pushed base STR to comically-low levels, you'd still do too much damage to be balanced and just scale in the most busted way imaginable (missing out on STR would make your HORRIBLY gimped -- at fresh 50, you'd be hopeless, then you'd be a beast at ilvl90 anyway). Remember that even if you tried to take STR off gear, you'd still have Allagan with +STR on it. No real way to address it except with a tanking stance -- you'd want to do so anyway due to splitting tanking and non-tanking DPS the way current tanks do. It's a design decision the devs made that all future designs have no choice but to mimic.

In short, it's my opinion that you're stuck with

Piercing Talon +enmity
Full Thrust combo +enmity
Leg Sweep on-GCD
30: AoE enmity
35: Tank stance -- reduces damage by 25%, +enmity, +tank-relevant effects (parry strength, heal, magic resistance, debuff immunity, whatever)
40-50: tank abilities -- DPS boosts need not apply

plus need to account for eHP weakness somewhere. Debuff immunity somewhere seems a likely candidate in that you have to contend with a level 34 ability which is useless to a tank as an enmity spike unless you have a way to avoid the damage penalty.

As long as you don't put any extra points into STR from LNC, you should be fine for off-tanking balance. Basically no off-GCD abilities, so you're pretty much the same as WAR with more potency and a weaker damage buff (+10% instead of +20%), with WAR having higher spike (+41% or so from Berserk with +9% Inner Release) and a pacification afterward while off-tank TMP would be more consistent but would have additional vulnerability for the duration. This is also why TMP cannot have any more damage abilities (at least not which do not require the use of the tanking stance).