So what exactly IS the issue with Warrior?

[ZDamned]

So Kitru, the only thing that strikes me in what you are talking about is consistent intelligent use of IB, (Sub 65% HP only!) and the fight duration. Because after so much time, it amounts to such insignificant numbers. I don't know a fight that starves out both the scholar and White Mage to the point that the 3-5 cure 1's will have been the determining factor. That would basically say that the group's collective DPS is too low to sustain the fight, and were suddenly being carried entirely by great healers.

What we should probably do is take into account exactly how much DPS Cadecus puts out, since this fight is typically the big one cited for Damage being put out on Tanks, But never have I heard of any healers unable to keep up with healing on any other fight, just Turn 4 Enmity issues..... Titan excluded because it's healer skill more so than tank cooldowns.

If were talking Turn 4 Dreadnoughts, Well.. I guess this is where my experience drops off, however I run with a Paladin, in my Coil Group, so if people are fighting for use of 2 warriors instead of 1 of each tank, then thats IMO not nice to Paladins. =(

To me 5% is not adding up enough to matter if your group is competent, and consistent. It can also easily be off set by a Bard song for MP Woes. If the fights were designed to be in excess of 45 minutes, THEN I can see where it will add up, but so far, nothign has even come close to 20 minutes long. (Again not sure about Twintania.)

[Kitru]

So Kitru, the only thing that strikes me in what you are talking about is consistent intelligent use of IB, (Sub 65% HP only!) and the fight duration. Because after so much time, it amounts to such insignificant numbers. I don't know a fight that starves out both the scholar and White Mage to the point that the 3-5 cure 1's will have been the determining factor. That would basically say that the group's collective DPS is too low to sustain the fight, and were suddenly being carried entirely by great healers.

If you're not overgeared for Cad, you're pretty likely to have your healers running out of manage towards the end of the fight (especially as a WAR, though a lot of that is due to CD suites; given the fact that the devs didn't expect people to do Cad to 4 stacks by using CDs, WAR performance on it is likely what's expected). The devs likely never intended healer mp to be absolutely infinite and, when you play content with relatively appropriate gear, mp levels *do* start bottoming out. Since it's pretty easy to outgear everything except for Coil (and outgearing the first boss of Coil with DL + myth gear isn't too hard either), you're not going to notice the loss.

The most important thing to bring home from those numbers is that it takes constant, unwasted IBs to bring WAR up to PLD efficiency, which is completely unrealistic. Because those numbers assumed that IB would have been used as efficiently as possible *as soon* as it was available for the conditions (i.e. 5 stacks Wrath or Infuriate resets), it's nowhere *near* realistic. In practice, you'll likely get maybe half of the contributions from IB that those numbers predicted, which pull WAR down to the 92-93% efficiency range.

I get the feeling that the numbers I did are pretty close to what the devs came up with when they were balancing the tanks, mainly because it gets *way* too close to equal for it to be an accident, as I see it. The probably didn't pay much attention to 8 man content, for whatever reason, and either ignored or were ignorant of the differences between the CD suites.

As to the "5% isn't that much", keep in mind that, in DL/AF2 gear, there's about a 5% difference in the mitigation benefits of Rampart compared to Foresight and most people notice the difference very quickly.