So what exactly IS the issue with Warrior?

[ZDamned]

190 DPS? I don't even remotely believe that.

Unless your in gear that is even better than mine... I don't see this as remotely possible either, on anything other than a training Dummy.

EVEN THEN, I can't break 200 sustained DPS in my Strength gear in Defiance without unchained.

This begs the question Judge_Xero, What gear is this warrior tanking in with which you still need to run Coil?

[Judge_Xero]

190 DPS? I don't even remotely believe that.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ank-DPS-Thread

It can do a lot of damage. Although the testing was done against training dummies, Warrior doesn't require any special movement for combos. With 400 STR and Bravura, I averaged ~170 DPS over 10 minutes.

Unless your in gear that is even better than mine... I don't see this as remotely possible either, on anything other than a training Dummy.

EVEN THEN, I can't break 200 sustained DPS in my Strength gear in Defiance without unchained.

You should try again using all your cooldowns. Even @ 5 minutes you should be over 210 DPS.

That makes no sense.
If Warrior DPS is equal to PLD DPS in sword oath, and Warrior DPS suffers a 25% damage debuff compared to 20% Paladin debuff, they would still be doing the same damage.
The logic makes no sense.

From Sword Oath to Shield Oath Paladin looses, 50 Potency per AA and 20% Damage. AA is ~35-40% of a Paladin DPS in Sword Oath. In Shield Oath it drops to about 20-25% of total DPS. So Paladin is loosing about 15% of it's DPS right off the top.
Warrior gets access to more powerful skills in Defiance which brings it's average Potency per Skill up.
There is your damage difference.

[Exstal]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ank-DPS-Thread

It can do a lot of damage. Although the testing was done against training dummies, Warrior doesn't require any special movement for combos. With 400 STR and Bravura, I averaged ~170 DPS over 10 minutes.
.

It can't be taken seriously because it's unrealistic for tanking purposes.

No Warrior is going to fight without Defiance and full STR and still be tanking. It simply won't happen. So that leaves you at 139 DPS VIT Warrior vs 120 DPS VIT PLD. Changing to full STR means nothing really, you may do some more DPS but forces healers to heal more often than normal.

In response to your DPS baseline of 200, you failed to see that Warrior isn't going to be doing 170. That's too close to the DPS of true DPS classes' base of 200. Healer isn't even close to DPS class either. I'd say it's barely above 50% of a geared and experienced DPS. Whereas Warrior / Paladin is below 50%.

[Judge_Xero]

It can't be taken seriously because it's unrealistic for tanking purposes.
No Warrior is going to fight without Defiance and full STR and still be tanking.

In response to your DPS baseline of 200, you failed to see that Warrior isn't going to be doing 170. That's too close to the DPS of true DPS classes' base of 200. Healer isn't even close to DPS class either. I'd say it's barely above 50% of a geared and experienced DPS. Whereas Warrior / Paladin is below 50%.

I wouldn't recommend tanking without Defiance. I performed my parse of 170 DPS over 10 minutes in Defiance.



Warrior requires more healing regardless if you are using STR or VIT compared to Paladin. That's the reason I looked at if you could increase it enough to warrant the extra healer, without a compromise to party DPS.

I could make another thread asking for Dummy Parses from all classes with endgame gear to get a better baseline than my own testing.

[Exstal]

I wouldn't recommend tanking without Defiance. I performed my parse of 170 DPS over 10 minutes in Defiance.



Warrior requires more healing regardless if you are using STR or VIT compared to Paladin. That's the reason I looked at if you could increase it enough to warrant the extra healer, without a compromise to party DPS.

I could make another thread asking for Dummy Parses from all classes with endgame gear to get a better baseline than my own testing.

You still compromise party DPS because healer with Warrior's DPS increase is weaker than 1 more DPS.

Yes, your numbers do ignore a lot of things. They also can't account for a lot of things. That's because the numbers are based on god knows how many assumptions that simply don't pan out in real-world examples. It is the best that's available, but the parsers tell a very different story. Maybe the parsers are wrong, maybe they all have well geared WARs and poorly geared PLDs. I don't know what the reason is, but every parse I've ever seen with 1 WAR and 1 PLD has had the WAR a good 20% more damage in front of the PLD.


When the maths says one thing, and the tests say something else, I start thinking maybe there's something the maths hasn't accounted for.

120 * 1.2 = 144

Not too far off from that other thread.

[Paikis]

Bro, do you even maths?

[KrenianKandos]

Well.

The new changes proposed by Yoshi-P certainly might have thrown some of the math out if it was released at the time it was.

Also, Tank forums just exploded with the changes. I eagerly await the theorycrafting regarding this 'if' it came out, to see if it is indeed OP or well needed.

[Maelwys]

Also, Tank forums just exploded with the changes. I eagerly await the theorycrafting regarding this 'if' it came out, to see if it is indeed OP or well needed.

My money's on "Well needed".

Looks like WAR + PLD will be the optimum combo for endgame raids now, since WAR is basically going to have exactly the same Effective HP and the same Proportional Healing as PLDs all the time, plus the ability to mitigate short amounts of damage every 20-25 seconds or so and an "oh crap" cooldown in Vengence. (I'm not sure about Holmgang - they might not die but they're still going to need healed back to full within 6 seconds, it's nice but it's no Hallowed Ground!)

There are a lot of people crying that the buffs have gone too far, but PLD will still be better at mitgating damage for longer periods of time, or for mitigating REALLY high amounts of damage... WAR basically just got buffed to the point where we can now argue the merits of one or the other depending on content. I'd call that a win.

[Judge_Xero]

Well.

The new changes proposed by Yoshi-P certainly might have thrown some of the math out if it was released at the time it was.

Also, Tank forums just exploded with the changes. I eagerly await the theorycrafting regarding this 'if' it came out, to see if it is indeed OP or well needed.

Yeah, makes discussion on what I was going on about useless now, since the new changes to Warrior will put it on the same level as Paladin no matter what party composition you are using.

They probably could have kept the Wrath mechanic @ 3% healing per stack - left Inner Beast @ 300% and went with all the rest of the changes. It would have kept a little bit of the choice making it requires to play Warrior. Still looks really fun to play though.

[mythicrose]

What is the issue with Warriors?

In 2.1, our eyes won't glow when infuriated.