So what exactly IS the issue with Warrior?

[PSxpert2011]

Sir, just listen to your FC. DOn't bother reading the WALL-TEXT on the forums, they'll only confuse you. It's better to run in blazing with people you know and can teach you.

[Zikh]

By far the biggest problems warrios have at the moment is the silly fact that the 15% healing bonus is tied to wrath stacks. This means that you can't really use any of your warrior skills effectively without screwing your healers, unless your Infuriate is off the cd. So in the end, all those fancy warrior skill have a cd of 1min. There's a limited amount of heals healers are able to cast, it all comes down to math.

The other problem is that for example Inner Beast heals a quite a bit, but it usually ends up being overhealing. It would be more useful if it gave you a shield for that amount.

There are other problems as well, but in my opinion those are the biggest ones.

[Exstal]

He's basically saying STR War + Healer = 1 DPS, so it's better to just have 2 healer, 1 dps and STR Warrior.

Whereas the Paladin doesn't need as much heals and the healer can be in cleric stance the entire time except for some boss fights. PLD team is effectively 3 DPS and 1 tank.

[Exstal]

The reason I didn't include healer DPS in the case of Paladin is because in endgame content the Paladin would require near 100% healing. Saying that Paladin can survive with only 60% healing in any content that a Warrior would have eHP issues with would be a bit excessive.

Aren't your examples based on 4 man content though? Full VIT PLD needs ~83% less healing than full VIT Warrior, so probably less than full STR Warrior.
So you have a situation where

Warrior
Healer 0% DPS
Healer 60% DPS
DPS 100% DPS

vs

Paladin
Healer 20% DPS
DPS 100% DPS
DPS 100% DPS

I fail to see how those even remotely match up

[Judge_Xero]

Aren't your examples based on 4 man content though?
I fail to see how those even remotely match up

It does get a bit confusing. My example is based on 8 man content, because in 4 man content the damage is so low that Warrior's self heals work great. It's because my party composition is only based on 4 players, as the rest of the members will just be DPS. I will do an 8 man example to show it better, using DPS values based on Darklight + Relic.

WAR - 170 DPS
Healer - 100% Healing
Healer - 70 DPS - 60% Healing
Healer - 70 DPS - 60% Healing
DPS X 4 - 800 DPS

Total - 1110 DPS
***War will receive 253% Healing with Infurate

PLD - 110 DPS
Healer - 100% Healing
Healer - 100% Healing
DD X 5 1000 DPS

Total - 1110 DPS
*** Because PLD takes 20% less damage it will in essence, receive 240% Healing under Shield Oath.
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@ Maelwys - you bring up some very good points, about there being situations where you need less heals and more DPS. I'll plug in the values to see how it compares.

WAR - 170 DPS
Healer - 100% Healing
Healer - 175 DPS
Healer - 175 DPS
DPS X 4 - 800 DPS

Total - 1320 DPS
*** War will only receive 115% Healing with Infuriate

PLD - 110 DPS
Healer - 100% Healing
Healer - 175 DPS
DD X 5 1000 DPS

Total - 1285 DPS
*** PLD will receive 120% Healing in Shield Oath.

I'd think WHM, SCH, SCH would be the most optimal for Warrior.

[Kitru]

I will do an 8 man example to show it better, using DPS values based on Darklight + Relic.

And as soon as you try to anything even remotely difficult, like Coil or Titan, the STR stacking WAR tank dies to a single burst.

*All* of your math is predicated upon the idea that a WAR is *supposed* to be stacking so much STR and damage gear that, with Defiance, it *matches* a PLD. Any attack or situation that pulls a PLD down to 20% hp is going to simply *kill* your WAR. It doesn't matter *how* good your healers are, there is *still* a delay between the tank taking damage and getting it healed back up, especially since you're assuming that healers are stance dancing to throw out some damage.

A tank *requires* the hp that comes with stacking so much VIT in order to survive the bursts in endgame content. You can swap out your jewelry for i70 crafted because it's shorting you only 25 VIT, but as soon as you sacrifice so much VIT that you only *match* a PLD, you're dead.

[Exstal]

How is a healer only doing 25 less DPS than a dedicated DPS class? That doesn't add up.

This is more realistic

WAR - 170 DPS
Healer - 100% Healing
Healer - 150 DPS
Healer - 150 DPS
DPS X 4 - 800 DPS

Total - 1270 DPS
*** War will only receive 115% Healing with Infuriate

PLD - 110 DPS
Healer - 30 DPS 80% Healing
Healer - 150 DPS
DD X 5 1000 DPS

Total - 1290 DPS
*** PLD will receive 120% Healing in Shield Oath.

[Kitru]

How is a healer only doing 25 less DPS than a dedicated DPS class? That doesn't add up.

None of his math does. It's been pointed out multiple times that his screwy composition is fundamentally flawed but he just *refuses* to give up and admit that he's been acting like an idiot this entire time.

[Judge_Xero]

None of his math does. It's been pointed out multiple times that his screwy composition is fundamentally flawed but he just *refuses* to give up and admit that he's been acting like an idiot this entire time.

Hey, now what's the point in Theorycrafting if no one critics it? I was actually hoping for GameMako since they are much more polite.

In current endgame gear, with VIT food a Warrior can have ~8k HP in a party and still keep 190 DPS. With 3 healers, the heals will be coming in ~33% faster than with 2 healers. So as long as the Warrior doesn't get 1 shotted it's HP will stay pretty consistent.

How is a healer only doing 25 less DPS than a dedicated DPS class? That doesn't add up.

To simplify things, I went with 200 DPS. You may have a Black Mage at 230, you might see a Dragoon at 185 etc. Healers in Cleric Stance can actually put out some decent damage. There's even some controversy on how close Scholar is to Summoner. Summoner is better of course, but people are upset at how close a healing class can get.

[Exstal]

190 DPS? I don't even remotely believe that.