So what exactly IS the issue with Warrior?

[symba]

Again, CoS and SW are being left out...

(PLD can weave in RoH as long as you monitor your hate levels and only switch back to Riot Blade if you start being in danger of pulling threat off the "other" Tank - you generally want to be #2 on the hate list anyway!!)

I know about CoS & SW. I'd still say warrior would be doing more damage than a paladin however. Especially in longer fights with no invigorate the TP differential makes a huge difference.

Edit: Just did a quick parse of Bravura war vs curt+1&holy shield+1 paladin over 2~ minutes. Paladin spamming FB>RB with CoS & SW. Warrior using IR/Berserk on CD spamming HS>Maim>SE. Paladin had clear TP issues after 90~ seconds while the warrior maintained the full fight thanks(?) to pacification from berserk plus a lower TP/GCD rotation. Warrior came out at 208.1 dps whereas the paladin came out at 198.33 dps.

[Deceptus]

Personally, I find it awkward that WAR's second cross-class is MNK, I never really see anybody talking about using it's abilities. I thought LNC (Keen Flurry, Life Surge, Invigorate, Blood4Blood) would be more appropriate (and for a while I thought this was its cross-class- seemed logical).

Probably saving LNC X-Class for Dark Knight. Makes sense.

[KrenianKandos]

Well.

The new changes proposed by Yoshi-P certainly might have thrown some of the math out if it was released at the time it was.

Also, Tank forums just exploded with the changes. I eagerly await the theorycrafting regarding this 'if' it came out, to see if it is indeed OP or well needed.

[Maelwys]

Also, Tank forums just exploded with the changes. I eagerly await the theorycrafting regarding this 'if' it came out, to see if it is indeed OP or well needed.

My money's on "Well needed".

Looks like WAR + PLD will be the optimum combo for endgame raids now, since WAR is basically going to have exactly the same Effective HP and the same Proportional Healing as PLDs all the time, plus the ability to mitigate short amounts of damage every 20-25 seconds or so and an "oh crap" cooldown in Vengence. (I'm not sure about Holmgang - they might not die but they're still going to need healed back to full within 6 seconds, it's nice but it's no Hallowed Ground!)

There are a lot of people crying that the buffs have gone too far, but PLD will still be better at mitgating damage for longer periods of time, or for mitigating REALLY high amounts of damage... WAR basically just got buffed to the point where we can now argue the merits of one or the other depending on content. I'd call that a win.

[Judge_Xero]

Well.

The new changes proposed by Yoshi-P certainly might have thrown some of the math out if it was released at the time it was.

Also, Tank forums just exploded with the changes. I eagerly await the theorycrafting regarding this 'if' it came out, to see if it is indeed OP or well needed.

Yeah, makes discussion on what I was going on about useless now, since the new changes to Warrior will put it on the same level as Paladin no matter what party composition you are using.

They probably could have kept the Wrath mechanic @ 3% healing per stack - left Inner Beast @ 300% and went with all the rest of the changes. It would have kept a little bit of the choice making it requires to play Warrior. Still looks really fun to play though.

[mythicrose]

What is the issue with Warriors?

In 2.1, our eyes won't glow when infuriated.