DPS Rankings

[Zigkid3]

I fail to see how a BLM is the most positional intensive as you claim when they're a ranged class over two melee classes, and then Dragoon more than monk when dragoons have like 2 positional things to worry about that they use every now and then over monk that has several positional abilities in their standard rotation.

[ZodiacSoldier]

This is how i normally deal with the positioning requirements of MNK and DRG, not to hard once you get use to it.

DRG - Heavy Thrust needs to be at Flank, Impulse Drive have to be from behind.
They only have 2 abilities that requires positioning so not to hard to forget. But generally I will be on the monsters flank and only move to that back to use impulse drive.

MNK - Bootshine and Truestrike needs to be from behind. Snap punch, Twin Snakes and Dragon Kick from the flank.
For MNKs I just always remember that Bootshine and Truestrikes need me to be behind, other times I will always be on the flank so its alot easier for me to remember.

[Blooregard]

FYI Monks get rull mad when you say their shit is a joke.

..So goddamned true.

[Allyrion]

Positional failures are pretty inevitable with the delay in mob direction/position in the FF14 engine -- unless you can literally predict the action of the boss at all points in the fight a second in advance.

If that's the case, then I have no idea why you have any comment about Monk positional attacks.

Because I'm not talking about it being difficult at all.
I'm saying it's pointless to talk about "positional demands" when this game has a mechanic that demands set positions.
That's it.

I did not call you wrong and you are overly defensive.
All I'm saying it that it's confusing to put monk positioning as low when it has the most position checks in the game.
I think the only reason you're stuck on it is because admitting monks have a lot of positional demands means they're harder or something.

But they're not and we can both agree on that.
I can agree monk difficulty is overrated. This has nothing to do with that.

Fixed.

---------------

That was an example of a discussion to make monk positions more challenging. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

FYI Monks get rull mad when you say their shit is a joke.

See above.

[Zigkid3]

I'd say dragoons and monks are pretty close in terms of difficulty, and as Allyrion said, the difficulty is overrated. But monks have the most positional stuff in the game that they use constantly, dragoons have two, and BLM has like none and are ranged as opposed to drg and mnk which are both melee. so i have no idea how you came up with blm>drg>mnk in terms of positional demand.

[Aleph_One]

If we're going to get into semantics/logic, I want a turn!

... Or your perspective is skewed. I don't perceive any meaningful difference between "positioning" and "mobility". Mobility is dynamic positioning -- a subset of the concept of positioning.
...

If I'm interpreting the structure of your response correctly, then you're suggesting that two concepts do not possess meaningful differences if one of the concepts is a subset of the other.

Just because two concepts are related in some way (share a variable with the same units) doesn't mean their differences are too small to be meaningful. The empty set is a subset of the reals (or any set for that matter), but it would be wrong to infer that because of the aforementioned relation, there isn't a meaningful difference between two.

[Tilgung]

Stuff.

You forget the part where MNK's continue changing form, and thus continuing their combo, regardless of position requirements being met. Some of your skills even still apply your buffs and debuffs regardless! You lose some damage, but the penalty isn't particularly large.

If a DRG misses positioning requirements, they wasted a GCD to basically do an auto attack without gaining any of the additional effects or allowing the combo to continue. And three of our abilities lock us in place after executing them. It's far more punishing to mess up on DRG than it is on MNK.

I've no experience with BLM so I can't comment on them.

[Teeko]

FYI Monks get rull mad when you say their shit is a joke.

I think they get mad because of your attitude rather than what you are saying. I couldn't care less if a dragoon thought my class was easy, especially since I stopped playing dragoon after getting BfB, but if you were being socially awkward and attempting to be borderline insulting, that is a bit different.

But hey, this is the internet and all...

[Regis]

BLM being needed is relative. I do faster WP runs with 4 summoners :P I have also seen coil groups that run with 4 physical classes. The only class I think is crucial in one of the 4 DPS spots is Bard because we are doing content higher than the gear you start with so MP is an issue for the healers

[Brynmor]

Except in cases of extreme imbalance player skill is the highest determinate of how much DPS a class can do. That's pretty much it. I've seen it many times in my time playing MMOs; a mediocre player playing an overpowered class will be out-shined by a very skilled player playing an underpowered class.

That, and a lot of the perception of how a class can or cannot perform is extremely subjective. People have fervent opinions on class performance based on no real objective evidence, especially on these forums. Someone plays with several bad BLMs and therefore assumes BLM is just a bad class. It's actually been pretty humorous how public opinion about the classes has changed since release. First everyone though BRD damage was really high but people slowly realized they are just very frontloaded. People at launch thought BLM was terrible, that opinion has changed. People though MNK was just flat out bad, but now most people know they can do amazing single target damage with long enough uptime. For the longest time people assumed SMN was garbage and now most people know they are also amazing when played well.

Basically; play what appeals to you, play it well and put up good numbers.