Could MRD Possible Be The Best Melee DPS Class ? (Theory Crathing)

[Kitru]

I wonder why he choose to say Marauder and not Warrior...maybe im reading to much into this.

He also went back and said that they got that wrong, so it's not really your best piece of evidence.

If you want some straight up math, here goes.

The highest damage MAR rotation is BB>SE>BB>SE>Frac, or 2780 (630 + 610 + 630 + 610 + 300) potency over 13 GCDs, which is 213.85 potency per GCD. The only additional potency you're gonna get is from auto-attacks, which is 83.33, and Brutal Swing, which is 50 potency every 30 seconds for 4.17 potency per GCD. Totaled up, that gives you 301.35 potency per GCD on average (218.02 from special attacks; 83.33 from auto-attacks; this will be important later on).

The high damage DRG rotation is insanely long thanks to the CDs on a lot of unequal durations, so I'm not going to list it out and instead use straight up math: HS is 1 GCD out of every 8, CT is 3 GCDs out of every 12, Phleb is 1 GCD out of every 8, Frac is 1 out of every 8, and the rest is made up of Full Thrust. All of this adds up to 216.67 potency per GCD (1/8 * 170 + 3/12 * (760 / 3) + 1/8 * 290 + 1/8 * 220 + 9/24 * (650 / 3)). DRG also gets, off-GCD, Leg Sweep for 130 potency every 20 seconds for 16.25 potency per GCD, Jump for 200 (w/ 50% extra from Power Surge on half) every 40 seconds for 15.625 potency per GCD, and Spineshatter Dive for 170 every 90 seconds for 4.72 potency per GCD. The auto-crit from Life Surge is basically a free crit on Full Thrust, or 150 extra, every minute for 6.25 potency per GCD. Tack on the 83.33 for auto-attack and you get 342.8 potency per GCD (216.67 + 83.33 + 16.25 + 15.625 + 4.72 + 6.25).

For multipliers, MAR would get 20% from Maim, 11.1% (1/.9 actually) from Storm's Eye, 2.375% from Internal Release, 5% from Blood for Blood and 2.22% from Raging Strikes. Berserk adds 2.667% to special attacks and 8.89% to auto-attacks. DRG gets 10% from Heavy Thrust, 11.1% (1/.9 actually) from Disembowel, 2.375% from Internal Release, and 7.5% from Blood for Blood.

Put there together and we get these formulas:

MAR: (218.02 * 1.02667 + 83.33 * 1.0889) * 1.2 / .9 * 1.02375 * 1.05 * 1.022 = 460.8 potency per GCD

DRG: 342.8 * 1.1 / .9 * 1.02375 * 1.075 = 461.1 potency per GCD

Furthermore, compound this with the fact that DRG gets the STR traits, MAR doesn't get the job stat bonuses, and that the MAR gear is severely lacking on secondary DPS stats and DRG pulls away pretty quickly.

So, yeah. You wanted full on theorycrafting and I gave it to you: MAR isn't going to do more damage than a DRG and, at best, will likely get upwards of 85% of a DRG/LNC's.

[TekkaTakeda]

How are you able to do this as WAR ? Allagan Axe ? Str Potion ? Food ? What Mob was this on ?

Makes me even more excited to see our full potential.

+1, i70 armor, Hero's belt, mostly i70 DPS accessories.

As mentioned before, we're always going to be calculating off of Maim + SE situations ha. Honestly I do BB>SE>BB>SE>BB>SE>etc to keep my damage as high as possible during encounters. Popping Unchained + Berserk + Inner Release on initial pull basically guarantees that I will have aggro for the rest of the fight. Other than surviving from that point on, the only other thing I can do is contribute to DPS, so I do. I only use STR potions under these circumstances:

1. Berserk is active
2. I remember to use them

I should definitely macro the pot into my Berserk ability but eh, I would only do this for content where the DPS is absolutely required since I would have to craft all of them.

[TekkaTakeda]

My stats in a party are actually really low compared to most others:

407 STR
+30 DET from gear

Seeing as I get 25 STR if I went full i90 armor and ~25 more if I went full DPS Accs, I should see a 20% increase in DPS since I would also gain a decent amount of DET and CRIT.

I don't think the argument should be whether MRD or even WAR is better DPS than DRG/MNK or whoever else. I don't even know what the argument should be, really.

All I know is that on Titan (farm this every day) I consistently am able to compete with +1 i70+ DPSs who are T4+ experienced. Compete means within 15%. Under ideal situations, yes, you will be beaten every time. However, being able to stand in mechanics sometimes really helps when others have to move and cause disconnects. I make sure to tell my healers to not heal me during things like Titan or if I'm feeding slimes in T1. Through Bloodbath and using Storms Path (hate all you want) I get to DPS through mechanics that don't instantly kill people.

[TekkaTakeda]

That's why my DPS is generally higher - Because I have ~99% connect time due to my ability to keep myself up. Communicate with your healers if you're trying to make this happen whether you're MRD or WAR. You can make it work but don't think that you are always the best option. I find more often than not, I end up popping Defiance>Provo>BB to pick up after a tank goes down and it has served me and my group(s) very well.

This is just my experience and should in no way be applicable to every other situation.

Sorry for the novel. Hope it helps anybody out.

[Calib0s]

For multipliers, MAR would get 20% from Maim, 11.1% (1/.9 actually) from Storm's Eye, 2.375% from Internal Release, and 2.22% from Raging Strikes. Berserk adds 2.667% to special attacks and 8.89% to auto-attacks.

Put there together and we get these formulas:

MAR: (218.02 * 1.02667 + 83.33 * 1.0889) * 1.2 / .9 * 1.02375 * 1.022 = 438.8 potency per GCD

It looks like you left out Blood for Blood in the Marauder Calculations, which would be an additional 5% overall (20/80 * .2). Thus the average potency per GCD should be:

(218.02 * 1.02667 + 83.33 * 1.0889) * 1.2 / .9 * 1.02375 * 1.022 * 1.05 = 460.78

Dragoon still has higher base strength, access to more secondary DPS stats on their armor, and doesn't have to worry about being threat capped, but potency per GCD looks to be nearly identical.

[Kitru]

It looks like you left out Blood for Blood in the Marauder Calculations

Not entirely sure how I missed that, but yeah, you're right. MRD with all of those CDs simply matches DRG on potency per GCD and DRG is going to get more out of each point of potency thanks to higher STR and better secondary stats.

[ZDamned]

Not entirely sure how I missed that, but yeah, you're right. MRD with all of those CDs simply matches DRG on potency per GCD and DRG is going to get more out of each point of potency thanks to higher STR and better secondary stats.

This also works out to be an impractical comparison because of the fact that it works with Butchers Block, which in itself will rip aggro from the tank on any encounter with more than 20 seconds worth of GCD's. So the true Damage Dealing capability of Marauder is still lower due tot he fact that they NEED to only use Storms Eye over and over again. VERY TP Inefficient, and lacking in overall Potency.

[Grembo]

This also works out to be an impractical comparison because of the fact that it works with Butchers Block, which in itself will rip aggro from the tank on any encounter with more than 20 seconds worth of GCD's. So the true Damage Dealing capability of Marauder is still lower due tot he fact that they NEED to only use Storms Eye over and over again. VERY TP Inefficient, and lacking in overall Potency.

You know you can keep an eye on the aggro bars and cycle between both combo's right?

[ZDamned]

You know you can keep an eye on the aggro bars and cycle between both combo's right?

Yes I do! It's part of why I said what I said, and it falls under 2 issues.

1) Average Potency per GCD is automatically lower than what is being calculated due to the change up in Rotation, since you can't just "SE, BB, SE BB..."

and 2) The chances for a heavy high end Skull Sunder/Butcher Block Critical Hit to Spike you over enmity would force you to keep yourself terribly low on the enemy aggro meter. Something that can't be done if Marauder is in fact such amazing DPS. =P

You have for some reason stated that HT is 10%; that is not correct.

Umm Yes it is. Heavy Thrust = 10% more damage dealt.

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/class/lance...y=heavy-thrust

[Gamemako]

Umm Yes it is. Heavy Thrust = 10% more damage dealt.

Well damn, I stand corrected. Welp, there goes basically the whole advantage that DRG had...

//EDIT: Yup, I've had it with Kitru's attitude problem. Ignorelisted, don't expect a response.