Could MRD Possible Be The Best Melee DPS Class ? (Theory Crathing)

[Adamar]

I hit harder than that on Warrior. It's a high hit with all the cool downs on at the same time. Every class can do this, even White Mage with Holy...

I'm not arguing overall deeps or any of that, but in terms of single hits: no you're not. I have more STR than you on my warrior and don't think I've even seen a basic 1k IB, never mind butcher's.

Even a +1 relic dragoon won't be hitting that with a fully buffed Full Thrust without a bunch of L90 gear.

[Dhex]

Tried it but MRD is just spikey and relies on a stupid amount of CDs just to get that inconsistent damage. Not really viable when you look at the static stat loss and being locked out of Relic & Myth gear.


Tried it as full DPS WAR and I just ended up having to tank because I generated significant hate even after giving the Paladin time to complete a few Flash/Halone rotations. Which is funny because many people assume Warriors need Defiance to hold hate - when it's the reverse... we just need that HP boost and Wrath mechanics Defiance offers to survive on boss battles/large groups.

MRD/WAR doesn't bring a DPS LB to the table - though I would say WAR survives things like Titan P5 easier due to the higher HP which feasibly means you'd get a greater share of the damage output than the squishier DPS that got wiped. Out parsing a DPS that knows their rotations and can... not die is highly improbable.

Building for Skill Speed on Warrior yields hilarious results - 500+ Skill Speed gives you a 2.3 GCD... Let's just say it's fun to mess with (.2s quicker turn over on actions feels huge in this game and I'm not sure why)

[OmegaSinX]

1) I hit harder than that on Warrior.

Ok, now I know your blowing smoke. if that was the case, you'd be doing 3-4k Inner Beast heals.

1)
And lets now talk about the Limit Break... Which will always be there every boss fight, and will always be used by a Melee Damage Dealer. So IF were talking Burst, how can you combat that?
(20,000 Damage from a Monk or a Dragoon. BTW)

You can't use this as an arguement because this is not a a individual skill, its a Party Limit. Also I dont think LB is even registered in parse.

[ZDamned]

1) You actually said it again... Dragoons and Monks who are playing their class, and using their abilities every single day know how to hit and attack and dodge properly without messing up their combo. You are literally talking about bad player skill with this point. Monks still out damage us on Titan or Ifrit with Greased Lighting falling off. Dragoons only need to position themselves for 2 hits, and it's a VERY easy positioning. Dodging might delay their hit for a second, but not interrupt it. And Any bad player will miss a move in a combo. That is an equal class fault, not a Dragoon/Monk only fault.

2) They can have good Sustain, not Great Sustain. I understand you want to fight for the tank class being the best class, but not even looking at potency of attacks, we can't deal our top end damage without pulling hate off the tank. AND NO, You can't do that in any boss fights and think it's "OK" because you are a tank class. If you turn titan for a Mountain Buster, you just killed the entire group. Or if you grabbed Cadecus, he will 1 shot you without Vitality gear on when you use your super strong burst. So then you look at Potency because the only way to DPS without pulling enmity, is using Storms Eye/Path combos.
150 -Heavy Swing
190 -Maim
270 -Storms Eye

Added together 610

Dragoon: (Without any positional effects)

150 -True Thrust
200 -Vorpal Thrust
300 -Full Thrust

Added up 650, and that is just their direct damage combo, So they can out Potency us with just that. However they have Better TP management, better enmity management, and another combo which adds a lot of extra damage on top of that.

(And yes Limit is parsed. I have my LS's Monk hitting for 19457 with Final Heaven)

[OmegaSinX]

Tried it but MRD is just spikey and relies on a stupid amount of CDs just to get that inconsistent damage. Not really viable when you look at the static stat loss and being locked out of Relic & Myth gear.

Yea but this whole topic is to theory craft of their potential in Full Allagan + Allagan Axe. We know the biggest thing hold MRD back is Relic and Myth lock out, but they are able to use Allagan.

[ZDamned]

Then look at a Dragoon in the same gear.... Your topic is asking is Marauder could be the BEST Melee DPS class!

[ZDamned]

I'm not arguing overall deeps or any of that, but in terms of single hits: no you're not. I have more STR than you on my warrior and don't think I've even seen a basic 1k IB, never mind butcher's.

Even a +1 relic dragoon won't be hitting that with a fully buffed Full Thrust without a bunch of L90 gear.

I had my Tank Accessories on when I logged out...

[OmegaSinX]

1) You are literally talking about bad player skill with this point.

It doesnt take a bad player to miss an attack or not get full benefit of a attack because a mob looked like it was turned but really wasnt because of lag. This disadvantage is seen even more when they solo.

150 -Heavy Swing
190 -Maim
270 -Storms Eye

Added together 610

Correct me if im wrong but Heavy Thrust & Disembowel combo is the only damage boosting DRG ability they can keep up 100% of fight. Both are Position based which only boost damage by 10% each.


MRD combo on the othere hand has damage boosters baked in, and he never has to move.

with it baked in, essential WAR can have + 30% (20% from maim, 10% from storm eye) damage so really its

MRD (with +30% damage)

Heavy Swing = 195
Maim = 247
Storm's Eye = 351
=793

DRG: (+20% damage)

True Thrust - 180
Vorpal Thrust - 240
Full Thrust - 360
= 780

Less not forget, you wont be able to spam this combo if you want to keep the added 20% because you have to refresh Disembowel and that combo potency is only 100(180 from behide) and 220.

[Dhex]

Lets not forget

Dragoon has Jumps or are we pretending they'll never use thier jumps? You can't disregard supplemental damage like Spineshatter Dive, Dragonfire Dive, Jump and Power Surge (all no TP cost Instant). Dragoon is also going to Crit far more often - you get +27 Crit Rate TOTAL from Allagan/Hero mix as MRD. A DRG gets +133 Crit rate in equivalent gear.

Marauder will need to be putting up Internal Release and Straight Shot just for a chance to do a Crit to boost their damage - that all will depend on their use of their CD suite. Straight shot is a deviation from your normal rotation, costs TP, costs a GCD, and needs to be put out just as often as Maim.

[ZDamned]

Disembowel alone is not positional, just Impulse Drive. After ID is out, you can toss up Disembowel anywhere.

In my Dragooning experience, (Relic will be complete after 2 AK runs today) Lag has not been a factor in missing Heavy Thrust, It feels to me like it's a client side check, but I could be wrong about that. All aside, it's not hard for me to use the 2 attack back to back from the side then to the back of the enemy. It's quite easy actually, especially when you look at what a Monk has to put up with.

Your also not factoring in Chaos Thrust after Disembowel, which is the highest Potency ability Dragoon has, and it is always going to be boosted by 20% when it lands, so it's a 432 Potency attack by the time it's about to be refreshed.