armory system useless? Mythology Cap

[itscoreylol]

Furthermore, the armory system isn't useless it works just fine. Just because you can't get AF2 on all your jobs at the same time doesn't mean that it's pointless to have the ability to switch at all. All you WoWchildren just want instant gratification. You don't understand that if you had things your way, you would've already poopsocked all your jobs to the same level of AF2 and rather than complaining about this you'd be complaining that the game doesn't have enough to do and that you're bored. You'd probably unsub then and that would hurt Yoshi's feelings and that's just mean. Slowing the acquisition of gear is necessary at this point in the games life. You all need to just chill the fuck out, you'll get your jobs geared.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

So instead of a badge grind you want rep grinds?

Uhhh… no?

Let's equate "rep" in another game with "jobs" here. You have 9 jobs to work with. Most people only focus 1, a few of us focus 2, and a tiny hardcore % focus 3 or more.

What I'm suggesting is the best of both world: there would be a 300 cap per week per job (therefore you can't gear any faster than currently), but you would be able earn tomes for any job playing any other job.

For instance, I play PLD. Let's imagine I also have a BLM 50.

1. Weekly reset on monday. I select "PLD" in a specific menu because that's my "main" job (typically would be a drop down menu in the DF window —*it's just about selecting which kind of tomes I want to get, I'm totally free to run dungeons using any other job).

2. Let's say I takes me until thursday to cap my PLD at 300 tomes. Whichever job I use, whichever dungeon I run, all the tomes I earn are "Tomes of the Paladin", therefore it works just as it does now: I can gear my PLD, playing any job I want.

3. Now let's say I'm not so casual and I still run more dungeons after that (to have fun with friends typically). Currently, I would get nothing (cap is per character).
With what I suggest, a per-job cap, means that I would then select "BLM". Again, whichever job/dungeon I play, I would keep on earning tomes but for BLM now. Maybe I'll get 100 until the next reset. Maybe more if I really want to gear my BLM. (remember, I can already do this if I had a second character who would be BLM 50, but I can't do it if my BLM 50 and my PLD 50 are on the same character: that's the whole point of my suggestion, trying to allow people to gear several jobs on the same character, since that's how this game is made: you can level up all jobs on the same character).

4. Next reset happens, on the next monday. All caps back to 0, therefore I select "PLD" again, and back to capping at 300.

I think it works. There's no additional grind if you don't want to (casual approach), but if you're a bit more hardcore, you can gear several jobs on the same character; but never does this system force you to play a specific job: I can earn my 300 PLD tomes while playing with my BLM if I so wish, it would just be a selector in a newfound menu.

As for your kind remark, please do not resort to ad hominem attacks: I'm just a player, like you, I just happen to suggest ideas that worked well in other games.

Also, when you say "All you WoWchildren just want instant gratification" : I don't see how it is "instant". Gratification, yes, that must be why most players actually play games. But in my scenario here, you would have to play double the time to gear 2 jobs instead of 1. Which you can already do by having two characters, but with this system, you can do it on the same char. I think it really empowers the current armory system, it makes it really worth using, instead of leveling up other characters entirely.

[C-croft]

What Shiyo said, 100% agree. On a side-related note, it would be great if moderators here would actually merge similar topics, that's just good practice on a forum.
(Sometimes people don't take the time to research prior to posting, or can't find specific threads, therefore that's why moderation is required: not only to discipline but also to curate and organise a forum.)

Speaking to this. The devs already stated they will not be changing anything in regards to the amount of myth tomes you can pick up... Shiyo's post that s/he is self promoting has become moot.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1463519

EDIT: Maybe not completely moot, but the myth cap per job is a no. The only thing you have going for you is the reduction in tomes per item later down the road.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

it takes time to do something in an MMORPG?!.... OMG!!!!!..........

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Speaking to this. The devs already stated they will not be changing anything in regards to the amount of myth tomes you can pick up... Shiyo's post that s/he is self promoting has become moot.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1463519

EDIT: Maybe not completely moot, but the myth cap per job is a no. The only thing you have going for you is the reduction in tomes per item later down the road.

I know, I read that.

But still, I'm of those fools who thinks making a good case can help finding better solutions, convincing people (read: fellow players but above all devs) that there can be "a better way". Or at least discuss it, consider the limits and flaws of a given choice and try to improve on it —I don't pretend to be right, but I certainly like a logical and reasonable discussion based on actual, humble, sound arguments.

I don't know of any game design that was perfect from the get-go (especially void of feedback, only tested at the office among fellow in-house devs), but I do know of game designers that strived to do better, listened to players feedback, and re-worked some aspects of their game again and again until they found a "sweet spot". SE said they would listen, and they already changed a few things in ARR since launch, so I'd rather believe they can still amend (even revamp) flawed designs that objectively don't fulfil their initial premise.

This isn't a game-breaking issue since there's a workaround known by everyone (roll another character), still it certainly tarnishes the interest of the whole armory system; but granted, there are more pressing issues such as the one we must not speak of.

Anyway, thanks for the pointers.

[Keyln]

Mythology tombstones are used to buy Relic Armor, but it's not necessarily the best armor in the game. It's equivalent to the Allegan armor that drops in Bahamut's Coil. It's also, through the crafting and materia system, to make armor that's the rough equivalent. Thus, depending on how you play the game, you could gear up three jobs at the same time, by getting Relic for one job, Allegan for a second, and using crafting and materia for the third.

[itscoreylol]

herp derp

Too long winded to read 90% of it. Your idea is bad. You're arguing for increasing the speed with which gear can be acquired which as I already said is not right for where this game is in it's life cycle. We haven't even had a content patch yet.

The worst part is you agree with that Shiyo kid. You both seem to agree on this idea that the armory system is flawed simply because you can't get myth gear on all your jobs at the same time. That's quite frankly a retarded way of looking at it. The armory system is functioning exactly as it was designed to, and the only people who have a problem with the rate at which mythology gear can be obtained are impatient entitled WoWchildren.

Bottom line, the highest tier of gear at a given level of content should not be quickly and easilly obtainable just by being able to grind more. Myth cap forcing you to make choices about which gear to get first is not a bad thing.

[Dhex]

Introduced @ LV10 via class quest:

"Try other professions"

Introduced @ LV30 via Job quest:

"You have to level another profession up to play as this Job"

Period of progression LV30-50:

More and more cross-class abilities are needed/desired and become available by leveling other professions.

End game LV50+:

Coil & Myth caps: players must switch from diversifying their professions and focus on a single profession for (iL90) progression. All other classes can be geared up to iL70 - however Coil requires only 8 man groups and locks players out after completion - thus they form Statics - further funneling them into fulfilling only a single role. The utility of their iL70 off classes is disregarded - the Armoury system is now used for primarily filler - building Relics and obtaining Dark Light (iL70) - while (iL90) progression is limited only to the player's main class.

Upcoming: (iL80) Crystal Tower - this is still not the highest tier of gear - possibly for elevation of alternative professions; will this content be dependent on lock outs or other artificial caps?

Does it allow static groups to change and use different classes? No. A group will always choose to bring their primary iL90 (Myth) role over their alternative iL70/iL80 (CT/DL) role. Once those statics reach 8/8 people with full (iL90) they will continue to farm with the same set up for maximized efficiency to gear their next role with (iL90). However - if new content adds higher tiers of equipment before statics can 8/8 full (iL90) - players will continue to build and utilize their most efficient (iL90) role/profession - AKA they will continue to "main line" a single profession.

This renders the Armoury system moot.

Edit: FFXI did this in reverse - you could easily get a variety of usable and equivalent gear for all Jobs from a wide array of content - picking a "main" profession was determined by how much time you sank into a single Job via the Merit Point system.

[itscoreylol]

THE SKY IS FALLING

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Because you know, no gear at all drops from the content they'd be clearing. Or you know, you're never going to reach the point with that ilvl90 job where you can't spend more myth tomes on it because you have all the gear. Also, nobody in the history of MMOs ever has been able to bring an alt to a raid.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

You're arguing for increasing the speed with which gear can be acquired

No.

Nothing you can't do as we speak with two characters. I'm just arguing for more flexibility with one character, since it's the design philosophy of this game. However, since in other games people make rerolls to keep on playing once they're done capping their main character, it seems logical, given the philosophy of this game, that they can do with one char what they do with rerolls in other games.

which as I already said is not right for where this game is in it's life cycle. We haven't even had a content patch yet.

Agreed, it would be bad. I think the 300 myth cap is fine.

Too long winded to read 90% of it. Your idea is bad.

Short attention span?

Besides, how can you refute what you haven't even taken the time to understand? You don't get my idea, you don't address my remarks but a pre-conception you have on anything else than the current system.

The worst part is you agree with that Shiyo kid.

Why is it "bad"? You don't like the name "Shiyo"? You seem much more of a childish person than him, judging from your generally vindictive tone, and obtuse refusal to even read others' posts.

You both seem to agree on this idea that the armory system is flawed simply because you can't get myth gear on all your jobs at the same time.

Indeed, you're forced to roll a second character to do that. Again, contradicts the very philosophy of the armory system. I didn't invent this system, I'm just comparing its premise to the factual result.

That's quite frankly a retarded way of looking at it.

Thank you, much appreciated. How do you feel about yourself, commenting on things you didn't even read?

The armory system is functioning exactly as it was designed to,

That's obvious. It's not bugged. We're arguing it's a bad design that doesn't fulfil its initial premise.

and the only people who have a problem with the rate at which mythology gear can be obtained are impatient

Again, I don't have a problem with said rate.

entitled WoWchildren.

Says the guys with "lol" in its pseudonym. Also, you should know that childhood is long gone for me.

Bottom line, the highest tier of gear at a given level of content should not be quickly and easilly obtainable just by being able to grind more.

I agree. Never said otherwise. But you would need to read what I said to know that, of course.

Myth cap forcing you to make choices about which gear to get first is not a bad thing.

But that choice negates the very freedom of playing all jobs on the same character, which is the very point I'm trying to convey.

Said otherwise: the armory system is supposed to be an alternative to rolling several characters, but factually, it is not, since we still have to choose a "main".

I think you understand all of this pretty well and are just trying to "troll". But you can still prove me wrong by bringing real arguments to the table. Until then, have fun in this game.