BLM Fire II incredibly lack luster

[Taemek]

You keep on thinking DPS for each individual mob matters when you should be AoEing.

307 DPS/mob[CAN'T HAPPEN CONCURRENTLY] < 320 AoE DPS(106DPS/mob).

It doesn't matter if one of them dies faster if the whole pack dies faster. You still haven't explained why you jumped up to 350 DPS, either.

That's how numbers work. Smaller numbers are less than bigger numbers. Doing 320 DPS is more efficient towards killing the 3-pack than doing 307 DPS to a single target.

You need to factor in HP pools to these equations also, so:

AoE - 10'000hp divide 106.6 dps per mob = 93.8 seconds.


ST - **I must stress here these values in this thread is a very vague rotation used to accomplish this DPS value. ST would be more like in the 320+ range as per this post here**

10'000hp divide 350 dps per mob = 28.5 seconds.
x 2 mobs = 57
x 3 mobs = 85.5
x 4 mobs = 114 = Break point at which AoEing becomes viable.

5 mobs minimum per AoE is efficient and effective, any less is a waste of time when factoring in the eDPS incoming on a Tank is more effectively mitigated with less mobs in a pack. It then becomes about how well geared the tank is or how well they play.

Honestly, any content worth a damn is single target based anyway, unless people claim WP speed runs as content that matters, then Summoners rule that roost anyway for AoE damage.

Dunno what to tell you to be honest, you seem to not be able to grasp it.

[Kevee]

Dunno what to tell you to be honest, you seem to not be able to grasp it.

Your example is flawed because it would be 3x3333 HP mobs for AoE.

You're looking at the ST DPS of an AoE skill, and I still can't believe you're repeating that. It's (ST DPS of an AoE Skill)x3.

320 kills faster than 307. Still haven't explained where you got 350 from.


Or you can do 10,000x3. AoE will still kill it faster.

[Taemek]

Your example is flawed because it would be 3x3333 HP mobs for AoE.

You're looking at the ST DPS of an AoE skill, and I still can't believe you're repeating that. It's (ST DPS of an AoE Skill)x3.

320 kills faster than 307. Still haven't explained where you got 350 from.


Or you can do 10,000x3. AoE will still kill it faster.

This right here clearly tells us you don't understand. Let me spell this out, one more time.

AoE - 10'000hp divide 106.6 dps per mob = 93.8 seconds.

It matters not how many mobs are in an AoE encounter or HP. What matters here is that you know there is 10k hp and at 320 DPS AoE it equals 106.6dps per mob which means the encounter is lasting 93.8 seconds in total to kill ALL 3 MOBS!!!! You can put 10 mobs in here at 10k hp and guess what, the encounter still lasts 93.8 seconds.

There is 3 mobs in the encounter, you do not spilt their hp by a third because there is 3. 3 mobs at 10k hp each = 3 mobs with 10k hp. It does not equal 3 mobs with 3333hp. I don't know how you even come up with that.....320 AoE DPS does not equal 320 dps per mob in the encounter.


ST - **I must stress here these values in this thread is a very vague rotation used to accomplish this DPS value. ST would be more like in the 320+ range as per this post here**

10'000hp divide 350 dps per mob = 28.5 seconds.
x 2 mobs = 57 seconds
x 3 mobs = 85.5 seconds
x 4 mobs = 114 seconds = Break point at which AoEing becomes viable.

Now this is where you seem to be getting confused. AoEing is simply not viable until there is 5 mobs in an encounter because your single target DPS is simply greater then that of your single target AoE dps on the encounter and at anything under 4 mobs, you can kill them faster then AoEing can. Now I can already tell you are going to further misunderstand this.

If you can't wrap your head around something this trivial, I can't help you any further.

[Kevee]

snip

No, this is what you're not getting at. You're doing 106 DPS/mob, but doing 320 DPS towards the total 10,000 health. You don't divide 10,000 by 106. You're not doing 106 DPS towards the total health, only per mob. You're doing 320 DPS towards the total, collective, health that 3 mobs share.

You can't seem to wrap your head around something that trivial. You're doing more DPS towards the entire encounter(10,000 HP), but less DPS/mob.


What you don't seem to get is that, DPS per mob means nothing as long as you're doing more collective DPS to the group.


And you still haven't explained where 350 DPS ST comes from.

[Taemek]

No, this is what you're not getting at. You're doing 106 DPS/mob, but doing 320 DPS towards the total 10,000 health. You don't divide 10,000 by 106. You're not doing 106 DPS towards the total health, only per mob. You're doing 320 DPS towards the total, collective, health that 3 mobs share.

You can't seem to wrap your head around something that trivial. You're doing more DPS towards the entire encounter(10,000 HP), but less DPS/mob.


What you don't seem to get is that, DPS per mob means nothing as long as you're doing more collective DPS to the group.


And you still haven't explained where 350 DPS ST comes from.

Either you are trolling or you simply do not understand how DPS is applied across a group of mobs.

Again, for clarity, 320 AoE DPS does not equal 320 DPS per mob in the encounter.


Simple math implies:

Blizzard II hits each mob in an Encounter of 3 mobs for 200 damage each.

200 dmg x 3 mobs / 2.5 cast time = 240 dps encounter wide

240 dps / 3 mobs = 80 dps per mob x 2.5 cast time = 200 dmg per mob


Using the OP's findings:

320 dps / 3 mobs = 106.6 dps per mob x 2.5 cast time = 266 dmg per mob in the encounter.

266 dmg x 3 mobs / 2.5 cast time = 319.2 dps

This is indicative.


You do not measure anything but the time it takes to drop the mobs HP to zero.

You do not cut a mobs HP by a third simple because there is 3. 3 mobs with 10k HP is simply, 3 mobs with 10k hp. You already determined the DPS on one mob in the encounter and since you are hitting all 3 for 106.6dps which is equal to 320 AoE dps, the fight takes 98.3 seconds in total.

Your issue is, you seem to think you are doing 320 dps to each mob in the encounter when you are not. 320 AoE dps is an accumulative amount.

[Kevee]

Your issue is, you seem to think you are doing 320 dps to each mob in the encounter when you are not. 320 AoE dps is an accumulative amount.

No, and I have repeatedly stated otherwise.

You are, still, comparing 3 10,000 HP mobs to 1.

Your example was flawed from the start.

You have the same amount of mobs, same HP.

10,000 3 Mobs 320 DPS
10,000 3 Mobs 307 DPS

Which wins? Individual DPS per mob doesn't matter as long as your collective DPS for the group is greater.

10,000/320 = 31.25
10,000/307 = 32.57

30,000/320 = 93.75
30,000/307 = 97.71


You can't do your ST DPS concurrently, and you seem to think otherwise.

While you're doing 307 DPS to one target, you're not doing it to another. When you're AoEing, you're doing 106 DPS/target, that is 320 DPS total.

320 > 307

[Taemek]

No, and I have repeatedly stated otherwise.

You are, still, comparing 3 10,000 HP mobs to 1.

Your example was flawed from the start.

You have the same amount of mobs, same HP.

10,000 3 Mobs 320 DPS
10,000 3 Mobs 307 DPS

Which wins? Individual DPS per mob doesn't matter as long as your collective DPS for the group is greater.

10,000/320 = 31.25
10,000/307 = 32.57

30,000/320 = 93.75
30,000/307 = 97.71


You can't do your ST DPS concurrently, and you seem to think otherwise.

While you're doing 307 DPS to one target, you're not doing it to another. When you're AoEing, you're doing 106 DPS/target, that is 320 DPS total.

320 > 307

You are still way out of touch with reality.

This wins:

AoE - 10'000hp divide 106.6 dps per mob = 93.8 seconds.

It matters not how many mobs are in an AoE encounter or HP. What matters here is that you know there is 10k hp and at 320 DPS AoE it equals 106.6dps per mob which means the encounter is lasting 93.8 seconds in total to kill ALL 3 MOBS!!!! You can put 10 mobs in here at 10k hp and guess what, the encounter still lasts 93.8 seconds.

There is 3 mobs in the encounter, you do not spilt their hp by a third because there is 3. 3 mobs at 10k hp each = 3 mobs with 10k hp. It does not equal 3 mobs with 3333hp. I don't know how you even come up with that.....320 AoE DPS does not equal 320 dps per mob in the encounter.


ST - **I must stress here these values in this thread is a very vague rotation used to accomplish this DPS value. ST would be more like in the 320+ range as per this post here**

10'000hp divide 350 dps per mob = 28.5 seconds.
x 2 mobs = 57 seconds
x 3 mobs = 85.5 seconds
x 4 mobs = 114 seconds = Break point at which AoEing becomes viable.

After 4 mobs, it is viable to AoE.

Me personally, I do it at 5 to maximize it.

Do what you want man.

[Taemek]

No, this is what you're not getting at. You're doing 106 DPS/mob, but doing 320 DPS towards the total 10,000 health. You don't divide 10,000 by 106. You're not doing 106 DPS towards the total health, only per mob. You're doing 320 DPS towards the total, collective, health that 3 mobs share.

I just realized this is where you are misunderstanding what eDPS is.

A pack of mobs do not share anything, period. 3 x 10k hp = 30k hp.

So if we use your example:

320 dps across the collective which is 30k hp = 30'000hp collectively / 320 dps = 93.75 seconds.

320dps / 3 mobs = 106.6dps per mob = 10'000hp per mob / 106.6dps = 93.8 seconds.

You will get it in the long run.

Let's see if I can phrase this in a way you will grasp it:


For a single mob it takes 93.8 seconds. For the whole group of three, it takes 93.8 seconds.

If you do 307 DPS for SINGLE TARGET damage, it takes 32.57 seconds for a SINGLE mob, or 97.72 seconds for a GROUP of 3.

Which is faster? The first. You are literally comparing the ST DPS capacity of an AoE skill to the ST DPS capacity of a ST rotation. You don't do that. On 3 targets, if you do 320 DPS, you're doing more DPS than if you did 307. Period. It doesn't matter if you do it to one target, or that 320 is split among multiple targets, you're still doing more DPS.





I am literally being trolled and I literally let it happen.

I thought, since this forum wasn't completely anonymous, that people wouldn't be so obvious about it.

Boy, was I naive..

You are doing more DPS because you are hitting more mobs....../facepalm

Do your math again with 10 mobs in it @ 106.6dps per mob.

[Kevee]

You are doing more DPS because you are hitting more mobs....../facepalm

Yeah, that's the point of using your AoE skills. You do more DPS because you hit multiple mobs.

No one has said using an AoE skill is better for ST DPS in this thread, at all.

Let us use the OP's numbers.

320 divide by 3 = 106.6 DPS per mob for Blizzard II.
260 divide by 1 = 260 DPS per mob for Fire/Blizz rotation combo rotation.

Over a period of 10 seconds:

1066 DPS for Blizzard II spam on 3 mobs
2600 DPS for Fire/Blizz combo on single target, hence the only time AoE becomes efficient is when there is more then 5 mobs as smashing down 3 mobs with single target DPS is more efficient and faster then AoEing.

You literally started with this.
"Oh, it does 106 DPS per mob."
"On 3 mobs it does 106 DPS."


WAT