BLM Fire II incredibly lack luster

[Kevee]

Then they are idiots and just show ponies, because as I said, unless there is 5 or more mobs in the pack, you're wasting time when 2600 DPS applied to each mob individually is faster.

And no, 320 DPS AoE is still = 1066 dps over 10 seconds per mob assuming 3 mobs. No one in their right mind who is mathematically sound looks at it any other way.

You just said it, per mob. 320 DPS total > 260 DPS total. It's better to AoE, at 3 targets or higher, until at least one of them dies. No one cares about the DPS to a single target if the pack dies faster, and it will if you're doing a consistent 320 DPS over 260 DPS. Who cares if each individual mob lives longer? No one.

Again, the "106 dps" per mob is irrelevant. An AoE doesn't attack a single mob. We're looking at 320 vs 260.

320 wins.

[Taemek]

You just said it, per mob. 320 DPS total > 260 DPS total. It's better to AoE, at 3 targets or higher, until at least one of them dies. No one cares about the DPS to a single target if the pack dies faster, and it will if you're doing a consistent 320 DPS over 260 DPS. Who cares if each individual mob lives longer? No one.

No, it is 5 targets or higher, read the entire post above.

Anyone who remotely thinks BLM is a one trick pony on 3 - 4 mobs and that spamming Blizzard II is maximizing our DPS is a moron, plain and simple or just plain lazy.

[Shadowzanon]

Fire 2 wuts that. ?????? i think i only use it on the tomberry king boss if the group goes with the aoe killing on the boss. But when im with my archer friend its fire 3, flare, ice 3, fire 3 , flare , ice 3 (you get the picture) things die stupidly fast. If im not with an archer its just fire 3, flare, transpose, ice 2, ice 2 then repeat. this will smoke things rather quickly.

[Kevee]

Let's see if I can phrase this in a way you will grasp it:

AoE - 10'000hp divide 106.6 dps per mob = 93.8 seconds.

For a single mob it takes 93.8 seconds. For the whole group of three, it takes 93.8 seconds.

If you do 307 DPS for SINGLE TARGET damage, it takes 32.57 seconds for a SINGLE mob, or 97.72 seconds for a GROUP of 3.

Which is faster? The first. You are literally comparing the ST DPS capacity of an AoE skill to the ST DPS capacity of a ST rotation. You don't do that. On 3 targets, if you do 320 DPS, you're doing more DPS than if you did 307. Period. It doesn't matter if you do it to one target, or that 320 is split among multiple targets, you're still doing more DPS.





I am literally being trolled and I literally let it happen.

I thought, since this forum wasn't completely anonymous, that people wouldn't be so obvious about it.

Boy, was I naive..

[Ferth]

First off, I want to point out that this was not a test to compare what rotations should be done, or situationality of abilities, it was purely a dps test for sustained AOE damage from Blizzard 2 compared to sustained damage in a myriad of fire 2 rotations. Discussion about efficiency and optimal rotations really don't apply. The only thing I wanted to bring attention to is that the cost and cast time for fire 2 make it less efficient in most situations. Situations where it should be used it can be foregone for a weaker spell that actually works better and requires less thought to use. I certainly don't know where the debate started about using aoes all the time rather than single target dps, since the entire point of my post was how fire 2 compares to blizzard 2.

The only reason my tests involved 3 targets is because I only know of one location where there are three striking dummies close enough to continuously AOE on.

With several phases in turn 4 and the emergence of wanderer's palace mass pulls aoe damage rotations are increasingly important. And maximizing dps should be a concern. Whether it should be the only concern is again, not a point I was discussing here.

[Kevee]

snip

My apologies. I'm at work, and got carried away for..Almost 3 pages.

Regarding Sleigh's post on the first page, would you do another/a few Fire III->Fire IIxX->Blizzard II->Repeat? The huge disparity in your tests, compared to theirs, is something that needs to be looked at.

[Ferth]

My apologies. I'm at work, and got carried away for..Almost 3 pages.

Regarding Sleigh's post on the first page, would you do another/a few Fire III->Fire IIxX->Blizzard II->Repeat? The huge disparity in your tests, compared to theirs, is something that needs to be looked at.

I absolutely can, I was very confused by their results as well. The main thing I noticed about fire2 is that with full stacks of astral fire it has a rather long cast time, which prompted me to see how just blizzard 2 spam compared.

[Xianghua]

Still trying to find out why Taemek is talking about single target dps when all the numbers given in this thread were for AoE DPS. I guess if he actually leveled BLM he would know fire 2 is AoE. He'd also know it is impossible to run out of mp spamming blizzard 2.

[silentwindfr]

Fire 2 and blizz 2 have different role, fire 2 allows to do AoE without take risk far from the group, when blizz 2 make you go into the melee.
if the monster don't have AoE Blizz 2 is better, if they have AoE around them Fire 2 is the trick.


if you allows me one second for come back to AoE vs 1 target, he is right, when your parseer give you the dps, is the damage done to all the target while x time... more target means more dps, but the hp pool stay the same, since you hit all the target at the same time.
like it was said, the break point for make the AoE be better is 4-5 monster, below is not worth... only summoner can deal AoE damage efficiently, since it spreads him dot.
finally, don't forget you are in a team, sometimes you will need to think as a team more than a DD, if you do AoE, means the healer will need to use more mana for keep the tank up, means the tank may need to use CD or make it jobs a pain like chain flash/overpower burning either them mana or tp for kill the pack without loose the hate.

a good DD do damage without take hate and without die ^^

but that another subject ^^

[Sleigh]

like it was said, the break point for make the AoE be better is 4-5 monster, below is not worth...

but that another subject ^^

Actually, 3 enemies is the break point for BLM, and I imagine most classes. I do roughly 280~ DPS on a single target and up to 350+ DPS on multiple, and that's not counting Double Flare™ to kill a trash mob from 30% or so.