Market Wards, enough is enough

[Shika]

Thing is, botters and RMT will always find a way to get hold of commodity items in order to attempt some form of price fixing and economy control.
In FFXI you could see RMT at the the Auction Houses all the time, and know (from looking at the sales history) they were buying up say all the black sole stocks so that they could pass on to a crafting bot/buddy to turn into sushi to sell.

If they find it harder to get hold of an item by simply buying it (which is an argument appearing against having some form of direct instant purchase like the AH system in FFXI), then they will just get more bots/RMT to go and fish, mine or kill the mobs that drop an item the want (over and over and over....)
They would definately not be put off by having to have some of their group stand in each ward in each city, probably using some hack or whatever, in order to buy the item from a retainer (which is effectively what they are doing right now) rather than doing it from the counter. Just my two pennies on this argument. Not saying that I am right, lol.

[Dreamer]

The thing that drives me nuts about these threads that with all the people clamoring for an AH, they don't actually want an AH persay. If you implemented an actual auction house (ie, there is none of the 'buy it now' silliness), they would scream bloody murder. No, what people want when they ask for an auction house is essentially a glorified NPC merchant with google capabilities. You search through its inventory, select what you want and pay for it, and it's given to you, all with nearly zero effort involved.

The current system is hardly more involved that that. You find what you want, zone in and walk to the store, and buy it. How's that any different than walking to your mailbox in other games?

The market ward system, once sufficiently streamlined, will be nice. Why? Name recognition. You like to buy ore in Ul'dah for your blacksmithing needs. After a days of crafting, you notice that you've been consistently grabbing your ore from this one retainer in the <x> ward. As time goes by, you often forgo the search and simply look for that retainer in the ward. There's also the buying and repair capabilities of the ward. Retainers are more flexible than the traditional auction house system, but they aren't currently being utilized to their full potential.

One aspect of this is retainers buying items. The problem with this is that the current search feature only shows retainers who are currently selling wares. There's no way to see (as far as I can tell) retainers who are buying goods, or even just a list of what is being bought by various retainers at this time. This is a solid half of the market functionality that is currently missing.

Want to correct this? Give us a new type of search, such "Potential sales" that lists items that you have in your inventory that are currently being bought by retainers in that city's market wards.

Even our repair functionality at the wards seems to be underused. People complain that NPCs should be able to repair gear, but even at massively inflated prices (like we have now), you would likely see the already small mending ward become a ghost town. People simply seem to value time than anything else. Sure, it's relatively easy and inexpensive to have all of your gear repaired via the Mender's Ward, but it takes a few hours of your retainer sitting in the Mender's Ward. When your sword breaks in the middle of doing your regional leves, people often don't have time or an inclination to wait a few hours before resuming. To me, this is the time to make use of the NPC repairs, but many people seem to see it as a reason to abolish the system altogether.

I'll cease my rambling and just state my position on the entire matter: the market ward system still has some hiccups, but is solid in design. It's the implementation, rather than the design, that currently has issues. If many of the members of the Church of the AH will simply give it a chance and some time, I think the end result can be an economic tool that's both equal to and in some ways better than the traditional auction house.

[Andrien]

Sooner or later the market wards will get over packed in my opinion. I would hate to be racing to a retainer against others who are seeking the same item, and if luck is not on my side the item will be gone a second later.

The system right now works but I fear its going to get over crowded later on.

[Rentahamster]

Renta, you make a lot of good posts, but quoting an article about the markets written last November doesn't really have much bearing on the market system as it is now.

Much of the article still applies. The only significant things that have been implemented since then are the ward renaming and the item search. Everything I've bolded is still badly needed.

So what should Square Enix have done? It should have set up a comprehensive market system that allowed players to set both buy and sell orders, just like EVE Online. Moreover, this should be a single, unified market accessible from all three major cities. In FFXIV, players can instantly teleport from one city to another, meaning that setting up three isolated markets accomplishes nothing beneficial at all and merely inconveniences players by forcing them to ask someone in another city to check the prices there and teleport if market conditions are more favorable.
Players should be able to list more than 10 items, and the market system should allow players to simultaneously place orders for equivalent items (for example: you can set an order that buys all items, including the +1, +2, and +3 versions, either for the same price, or for four prices). Finally, this market system should show historical transactions, ideally dating back for a full year (as in EVE Online) but even the last few transactions (as in FFXI) would be acceptable for players to make an informed decision based on both current market brackets and past market performance.
In conclusion, there are a number of valuable lessons all MMORPG designers should take into consideration when developing their virtual economy. First and foremost, give players the tools they need to be an active participant in the game economy without undue burden or stress.
Secondly, ensure that all types of players ("market players", casual players, and everything in between) feel like the market works for them.
Thirdly, make sure to balance all your opportunity costs: don't let the MIMO trickle cause too much inflation. Continual money-out outlets like Player Housing are a fantastic way to keep your economy in check. Finally, remember that you're making a game. It should be fun to play. Empower your players, not just with sword and powerful magic, but with the chance to make dreams of riches on the market a reality too!

As to why not buy direct from the search counter? I don't know 100% But I can imagine it would make automated botting programs that snatch everything from the economy and control commodities a heck of a lot easier. To my mind it's a trade of "spend 30 seconds to go to the ward" vs "there are no items and RMT and other botters own all the materials".

That's a valid point, but I doubt it would get that bad. Nearly all the anti-RMT measures put into place in this game don't even work and do more to frustrate legitimate players.

There are better ways to deal with bots then to screw with the enjoyment of legitimate players.

[Wolfie]

F this. An NPC-less system is easier to implement than practically any modification or expansion they try to give market wards.

The fact that they still insist on trying to work with the market ward system is offensive to my education. This game is hopeless. The devs and fans have the collective intelligence of a sack of potatoes.

[Poipori]

F this. An NPC-less system is easier to implement than practically any modification or expansion they try to give market wards.

The fact that they still insist on trying to work with the market ward system is offensive to my education. This game is hopeless. The devs and fans have the collective intelligence of a sack of potatoes.

2 thumbs up, my thoughts exactly.

They are simply wasting their time and effort trying to fix the fundamentally flawed design of market wards, there is no point in doing that, market ward sucks, period.

Imagine a server with a population of 5000 players, say every one out of 5 player has a retainer in a ward, then you would need to render 1000 retainers, in a single small zone, the zone is bound to crash, and sluggish to use.

Not to mention the hassle, zoning to a particular ward to find the retainer with a star on top, this is just silly. This concept itself is very impractical.

[Vesperia]

Can I just make one small suggestion?

Bring it to the Streets!

[Dimo]

F this. An NPC-less system is easier to implement than practically any modification or expansion they try to give market wards.

The fact that they still insist on trying to work with the market ward system is offensive to my education. This game is hopeless. The devs and fans have the collective intelligence of a sack of potatoes.

It's so true. Why are they continuing to believe in this market ward retainer garbage? I have less of a connection to these retainers than anything else in this game, and thats saying something...considering I dont even remember what the heck my companion's name is. Its not a unique feature, its not a good feature..its a pain and pointless. Not to mention they crash every other day. Just give us a nice UI to buy/sell items. The dev says its not overnight fix to go to an AH... well yeah..but the market wards havent been fixed/fully functional after 8 months. So how long till they finally decide that its terrible and switch to something more practical? Are they still sold on retainers because they are hoping that when it goes to P2P people will buy more retainers creating more income for SE? At this point I am about 96% sure thats the only reason left to have retainers.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

wow lot of people QQing over something so stupid.......

I like the retainer idea, it is something different, and seems people forgot, there are (well where) plans to use the retainers for other things, notice how your retainers still have a level?

the retainer/market ward system will work, it just needs a bit more put into it. The game was honestly released a year to early, and I don't care how much others want to fool themselves this game is still in beta for all intents and purposes.

[Poipori]

Are they still sold on retainers because they are hoping that when it goes to P2P people will buy more retainers creating more income for SE? At this point I am about 96% sure thats the only reason left to have retainers.

hmm, the more I think of it, the more this seems to be the case, they don't wanna lose their cash cow, they are trying multitude of ways to make this cash cow work.

but at this rate, not only will they not get their cash cow, they might even lose their cash calf.

All we want is a practical market system that is easy to use, with features like instant delivery, integration across the market, detailed search capabilities etc.

I don't feel a connection to these retainers either, I just feel the frustration of having to zone butt load of times, and running around the ward zone mindlessly searching for a freakin star on top of the head.