Market Wards, enough is enough

[Shai]

I suggest you think of whats going to happen to the market ward system when servers have more than 1000 players, or are we fine having 5 different battlecraft wards and potentially even more crashing?

Considering everyone telling me they'll quit if there's no AH put in place, I'm not worried about crossing the 1000 player bridge just yet. It's months away at best. At no time did I say the Wards are perfect and don't need constant attention to work optimally. Quote me where you got that implication.

[Mack]

You see, I've listed reasons that the current system is better for the economy by make it ridiculously hard for RMT (or any player driven corporation) to run a monopoly on goods.

Lol I can run a monopoly on goods, I even have enough gil to do it. The Wards don't stop RMT, hell they don't even slow them down...there's a search feature isn't there? that means there's room for manipulation. The only way to stop monopolization of goods is for congress to pass laws against it, and being that this is a game you'd be hard pressed to get that to happen. The Wards have no redeemable qualities about them, they are cumbersome, they require much more out of you (from putting stuff up for sale to buying stuff) for a lot less in return. I'm sorry, but no matter how you slice it up, the wards stink and will get worse. A Menu system is much better, call it whatever you want, Auction House, Vendor, whatever; as long as it has no NPCs involved and it does the job better.

[Gracious]

Shai first of all please quit trying to get me into a fruitless discussion with you. It would help if you learn to simplify your responses. I'm not here to argue with people personally. I am here to voice my opinon, and the opinion of my family, friends, and LS that feel the same. I don't owe you any explanation. I think when the majority votes for something that speaks for itself. I see your arguement and I do NOT agree. I don't want to make the MW better. I want an Auction House. Are you related to Kilta?

[Tiraelina]

Considering everyone telling me they'll quit if there's no AH put in place, I'm not worried about crossing the 1000 player bridge just yet. It's months away at best. At no time did I say the Wards are perfect and don't need constant attention to work optimally. Quote me where you got that implication.

It's irrelevent who said it, it's a fact that the MW capabilities are going to rapidly diminish as the player base increases due to its design. They already get full.

I want a real answer how this is going to be solved in the long term, that is what their decisions have to revolve around if they want any staying power.

[Shai]

It's not fruitless to list reason an AH would help the game.

I'm telling you, it's the only way SE is going to implement it - if it will make the game better.
All I'm asking is for ANY OF YOU to tell me how an AH would be better than a functioning Ward system.

Instead you resort to stalling, changing the subject and insulting me. GG.
Whining, crying, complaining, threatening to quit aren't going to change things.
It's also not a Democracy. Polling player interest doesn't set game changes in stone. (Thank God).

If you want SE to implement an AH, come up with reasons it will work better.
That is all. Not going to drag an "argument" out for pages.

I'll come back in a few days and see if you came up with anything or if it's the same old crying and whining and threatening. Good luck.

[Wolfie]

The bottom line is that if you want an Auction House you should start listing real reasons it is better than a Market Ward. You see, I've listed reasons that the current system is better for the economy by make it ridiculously hard for RMT (or any player driven corporation) to run a monopoly on goods. This is good for everyone. It's a benefit to the economy where the Auction House had failed.

Auction House could be designed to "trustbust" but we already have a Market Ward.

Stop saying "I want one" and start listing explicit reasons why one would be better. You shave off 30-60 seconds of your time finding/placing an item. I get that much, but it's not a good trade off for me to just hand over the economy to RMT exploitation. Some people pointed out a laughable list of pros for AH that could all be achieved by a Market Ward system.

Why build a redundant system when the current one is capable of functioning the same way, or better overall for the economy (at the cost of a small amount of convenience)? That's what the real issue should be.

You want one isn't an argument. No one cares about that, including SE.
What does an AH provide that makes you want it and why can't the Wards facilitate that same need?

Would you like to list the advantages of the NPC model over the NPC-less model? Or refute the points I made regarding the large overhead incurred and its scalability problems? Or provide feasible fixes?

[Gracious]

It's not fruitless to list reason an AH would help the game.

I'm telling you, it's the only way SE is going to implement it - if it will make the game better.
All I'm asking is for ANY OF YOU to tell me how an AH would be better than a functioning Ward system.

Instead you resort to stalling, changing the subject and insulting me. GG.
Whining, crying, complaining, threatening to quit aren't going to change things.
It's also not a Democracy. Polling player interest doesn't set game changes in stone. (Thank God).

If you want SE to implement an AH, come up with reasons it will work better.
That is all. Not going to drag an "argument" out for pages.

I'll come back in a few days and see if you came up with anything or if it's the same old crying and whining and threatening. Good luck.

The reason SE should implement anything in the game is for the players. You know the ones that will pay to play. The reasons for and against an Auction House have been posted over and over. But guess what? The majority want an Auction House. No amount of arguing is going to sway that fact. The Market Wards are not what most players would like. I don't know why SE can't implement the few simple things players are requesting; such at Auction House, Linkshell Management Options, Mog House. Ignoring what the players want though is not going to win them more fans.

[Rentahamster]

EVE has an entirely different model. One that I'm not entirely familiar with except for the 2 outdated links you keep posting over and over and over and over like they explain anything.

lol

I post them because they are relevant and do explain a lot.

Take a look at this too, while you're at it.

http://www.legitisk.com/category/market_bot/

I'm not saying an Auction House can't do what a Wards does. I'm saying the Wards is already doing it. Why change it? Why not just make Wards function correctly and not waste countless months re-designing a redundant system?

Can you answer that?

Well, since the problems with the market ward system run really really deep: problems with displaying of numerous NPCs, memory issues, lag issues, organization issues, coordination issues, server stability issues, unnecessary server strain issues, etc.

You present the argument as a choice between two things:

1. "make Wards function correctly"

2. "waste countless months re-designing a redundant system"

As if those are exactly how the issues are presented. The team has had nearly a year since alpha and the wards, while slightly improved, still have a lot of problems functioning properly. This is not a good track record for guessing how much longer it will take to "fix" the ward system.

They not only need to implement changes into item transaction programming, they also need to fix latency issues, and game graphic engine and memory issues.

Do you really think it's gonna be that simple?

Do you really think it would be easier than setting up a menu only, text only, item transaction database for players, which is what this "AH" would be in its simplest form - A market ward system like we have now, just without any NPCs, and letting players just buy directly from the item search.


Just consider for a moment the possibility that scrapping the market ward system for now and putting in place a menu-based item exchange interface might actually be the course of action that takes less time and effort.

[Shai]

some stuff

You make a good point, but what else do you suppose is considered?
You think SE has "Because Gracious will play Guild Wars" on the table?

The issue before SE is multi-faceted but breaks down (in my opinion) to ...

1. Can we fix the Wards to function at expected capacity and efficiency?
2. How long would an AH take and how much of the game would have to wait until it was done?

If the answer to #1 is yes, why bother with #2?
No one has answered me yet. Still changing the subject and deflecting responsibility.

No matter how much or how loud Gracy cries "because players want it" is not a viable argument.
Nothing should be added to the game simply because players want it.
Things should be added to the game because they make the game better.

Edit: Honestly, be back in a few days. I just replied cause RH had a good point and I thought maybe with some prodding a productive conversation could ensue. Time will tell. ^^

[Gracious]

Personally, sadly, I think Shai's comments are basically how I think SE would answer me. It doesn't matter what the fans want. It doesn't matter what the majority wants. They are going to do what they are going to do. When I first started playing I really liked the game except for a few issues. And after the poll, I found out those are the same issues other players felt needed to be fixed. It's almost 8 months now and there is still not much content, no AH, no linkshell management options. I've been rooting them on but I'm so completely disappointed to hear they aren't working on an AH. The Market System is so flawed. And someone responded above give me a reason for an AH.... well I guess the fans don't count here because that's what they asked for and have been ignored.