Market Wards, enough is enough

[Shai]

The bottom line is that if you want an Auction House you should start listing real reasons it is better than a Market Ward. You see, I've listed reasons that the current system is better for the economy by make it ridiculously hard for RMT (or any player driven corporation) to run a monopoly on goods. This is good for everyone. It's a benefit to the economy where the Auction House had failed.

Auction House could be designed to "trustbust" but we already have a Market Ward.

Stop saying "I want one" and start listing explicit reasons why one would be better. You shave off 30-60 seconds of your time finding/placing an item. I get that much, but it's not a good trade off for me to just hand over the economy to RMT exploitation. Some people pointed out a laughable list of pros for AH that could all be achieved by a Market Ward system.

Why build a redundant system when the current one is capable of functioning the same way, or better overall for the economy (at the cost of a small amount of convenience)? That's what the real issue should be.

You want one isn't an argument. No one cares about that, including SE.
What does an AH provide that makes you want it and why can't the Wards facilitate that same need?

[Gracious]

The bottom line is that if you want an Auction House you should start listing real reasons it is better than a Market Ward. You see, I've listed reasons that the current system is better for the economy by make it ridiculously hard for RMT (or any player driven corporation) to run a monopoly on goods. This is good for everyone. It's a benefit to the economy where the Auction House had failed.

Auction House could be designed to "trustbust" but we already have a Market Ward.

Stop saying "I want one" and start listing explicit reasons why one would be better. You shave off 30-60 seconds of your time finding/placing an item. I get that much, but it's not a good trade off for me to just hand over the economy to RMT exploitation. Some people pointed out a laughable list of pros for AH that could all be achieved by a Market Ward system.

Why build a redundant system when the current one is capable of functioning the same way, or better overall for the economy (at the cost of a small amount of convenience)? That's what the real issue should be.

You want one isn't an argument. No one cares about that, including SE.
What does an AH provide that makes you want it and why can't the Wards facilitate that same need?

Why do you think this game is failing? It's because the players of this game didn't like what SE was doing and felt they went backwards instead of forwards in some area's. Market Wards is backwards. What you are saying is that SE doesn't care about it's player base, since a HUGE majority asked for an Auction House and they aren't even working on one. You are right. I think many players feel SE is not listening to us. SE doesn't listen we'll leave. I only stuck around this long because I like the game with all but a few exceptions. I vote with the majority on some issue's that need to be fixed. Auction House is one of them. All I can say is this: the FIX is an Auction House, and Guild Wars 2 is looking better and better to me.

[Shai]

Why do you think this game is failing? It's because the players of this game didn't like what SE was doing and felt they went backwards instead of forwards in some area's. Market Wards is backwards. What you are saying is that SE doesn't care about it's player base, since a HUGE majority asked for an Auction House and they aren't even working on one. You are right. I think many players feel SE is not listening to us. SE doesn't listen we'll leave. I only stuck around this long because I like the game with all but a few exceptions. I vote with the majority on some issue's that need to be fixed. Auction House is one of them. All I can say is this: the FIX is an Auction House, and Guild Wars 2 is looking better and better to me.

I've addressed this many times. TO YOU SPECIFICALLY.

1. Lack of AH is not causing this game to fail. Maybe it's why you don't play or will leave, but you're 1 person who is stuck on a name rather than what the system does. Market Wards is capable of doing the same thing AND blocking RMT from controlling the economy. An AH could be built that does the same thing, but why build a new system when the functioning system is fully capable of facilitating ALL your needs. It's a waste of time, money and manpower.

2. The lack of usable economy was a severe issue in the first 2-3 months of this game because there was no effective way to find ANYTHING you wanted to buy. Therefore it was near impossible to sell ANYTHING you needed to sell. (Add to the fact that NPC'ng 20 items took about 35 minutes due to UI latency issues and you have a real worthless economy, don't you)? News flash: All those things have been fixed since January. This is just 1 aspect of the many failed systems that were in this game between Sept 22 and Christmas. If you want me to list them all I can, but it's a waste of my time, effort, money and manpower.

3. SE does care about its player base which is why they aren't about to hand the economy over from a player driven one to one controlled by a collection of people only interested in real world money that punish legitimate players. The Market system (by the way) was one of the lowest things people wanted changed. You keep saying AH is #2, but the economy (in the previous question) was 2nd to last. The polls reflect the feelings of people in January, before the economy had even taken hold, before the Item Search had been refined. People wanted the functionality of an Auction House, and now they have it. Poll players again and I'm personally sure AH would be a minority vote - especially if SE tells you how long it will take and all the things they'll have to stall in order to work on it and implement it.

Thinking the AH will turn this game around is ridiculous. It's one of the most preposterous statements I've ever heard.

Guild Wars 2 looks pretty good to me, too. What's your point?
SE doesn't care if you leave. Go ahead. You aren't threatening them.

When the game is fixed and everything runs smoothly, they'll re-launch on PS3 with tons of content and lure as many people back as they can. They'd like you back, but right now they don't really care what you do. You are not money in their pocket. The "AH or I quit" threat is as silly as thinking AH will fix everything wrong with the game.

Post some real reasons for an AH please.

[Rentahamster]

I get that much, but it's not a good trade off for me to just hand over the economy to RMT exploitation.

In your opinion, do you believe that the makers of EVE Online "handed their economy over to RMT exploitation:?

[Shai]

In your opinion, do you believe that the makers of EVE Online "handed their economy over to RMT exploitation:?

EVE has an entirely different model. One that I'm not entirely familiar with except for the 2 outdated links you keep posting over and over and over and over like they explain anything.

I have said that you can build an Auction House that prevents some of the shortcuts RMT take to monopolize the economy, but we already have that in the Market Wards - so list some other things an Auction House would provide that it's worth reworking the entire economy to facilitate it.

I'm not saying an Auction House can't do what a Wards does. I'm saying the Wards is already doing it. Why change it? Why not just make Wards function correctly and not waste countless months re-designing a redundant system?

Can you answer that?

[Rentahamster]

EVE has an entirely different model. One that I'm not entirely familiar with except for the 2 outdated links you keep posting over and over and over and over like they explain anything.

lol

I post them because they are relevant and do explain a lot.

Take a look at this too, while you're at it.

http://www.legitisk.com/category/market_bot/

I'm not saying an Auction House can't do what a Wards does. I'm saying the Wards is already doing it. Why change it? Why not just make Wards function correctly and not waste countless months re-designing a redundant system?

Can you answer that?

Well, since the problems with the market ward system run really really deep: problems with displaying of numerous NPCs, memory issues, lag issues, organization issues, coordination issues, server stability issues, unnecessary server strain issues, etc.

You present the argument as a choice between two things:

1. "make Wards function correctly"

2. "waste countless months re-designing a redundant system"

As if those are exactly how the issues are presented. The team has had nearly a year since alpha and the wards, while slightly improved, still have a lot of problems functioning properly. This is not a good track record for guessing how much longer it will take to "fix" the ward system.

They not only need to implement changes into item transaction programming, they also need to fix latency issues, and game graphic engine and memory issues.

Do you really think it's gonna be that simple?

Do you really think it would be easier than setting up a menu only, text only, item transaction database for players, which is what this "AH" would be in its simplest form - A market ward system like we have now, just without any NPCs, and letting players just buy directly from the item search.


Just consider for a moment the possibility that scrapping the market ward system for now and putting in place a menu-based item exchange interface might actually be the course of action that takes less time and effort.

[Shai]

some stuff

You make a good point, but what else do you suppose is considered?
You think SE has "Because Gracious will play Guild Wars" on the table?

The issue before SE is multi-faceted but breaks down (in my opinion) to ...

1. Can we fix the Wards to function at expected capacity and efficiency?
2. How long would an AH take and how much of the game would have to wait until it was done?

If the answer to #1 is yes, why bother with #2?
No one has answered me yet. Still changing the subject and deflecting responsibility.

No matter how much or how loud Gracy cries "because players want it" is not a viable argument.
Nothing should be added to the game simply because players want it.
Things should be added to the game because they make the game better.

Edit: Honestly, be back in a few days. I just replied cause RH had a good point and I thought maybe with some prodding a productive conversation could ensue. Time will tell. ^^

[Wolfie]

You make a good point, but what else do you suppose is considered?
You think SE has "Because Gracious will play Guild Wars" on the table?

The issue before SE is multi-faceted but breaks down (in my opinion) to ...

1. Can we fix the Wards to function at expected capacity and efficiency?
2. How long would an AH take and how much of the game would have to wait until it was done?

If the answer to #1 is yes, why bother with #2?
No one has answered me yet. Still changing the subject and deflecting responsibility.

No matter how much or how loud Gracy cries "because players want it" is not a viable argument.
Nothing should be added to the game simply because players want it.
Things should be added to the game because they make the game better.

Edit: Honestly, be back in a few days. I just replied cause RH had a good point and I thought maybe with some prodding a productive conversation could ensue. Time will tell. ^^

Please share your ideas on how to fix the following problems with MW:

crashes
slower gaming machines being at a disadvantage
repeated forced zoning
slow searches
penalties for selling multiple item categories
ward limits

[Rentahamster]

The issue before SE is multi-faceted but breaks down (in my opinion) to ...

1. Can we fix the Wards to function at expected capacity and efficiency?
2. How long would an AH take and how much of the game would have to wait until it was done?

If the answer to #1 is yes, why bother with #2?
No one has answered me yet.

You would bother with #2 even if the answer is 'yes' because #2 would take less time to implement, is not reliant on more drastic game engine and server memory performance issues, and it can service more players at once and provide a means of economic exchange that is faster and more convenient than the market wards while at the same time not being a boon to RMT as you seem to think it would be.

[Wolfie]

You would bother with #2 even if the answer is 'yes' because #2 would take less time to implement, is not reliant on more drastic game engine and server memory performance issues, and it can service more players at once and provide a means of economic exchange that is faster and more convenient than the market wards while at the same time not being a boon to RMT as you seem to think it would be.

Never mind the fact that RMT thrives in a game where players are frustrated with unintuitive, difficult mechanics or that they're tenfold more organized and capable than your average player at using (and abusing) any market system; the only thing that's important in a game is for it to be low on, or free of RMT even if you drive away 99% of your customers.