Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

[Taemek]

I could have sworn Yoshi said that instead of nerfing content or PLD, they'd be buffing (adjusting) WAR. A single PLD can tank Cadecus... something that wasn't intended.

He didn't really say any such thing about buffing Warriors at all, he did however apologize for 2 x PLD's trivializing Coil though and that wasn't intended. He went on to say that Warriors would get a look, including their Stun skill which has a long animation time compared to other melee classes stun abilities which has a short animation time.

The thing people don't seem to be aware of is, if Warriors were made to be able to tank as efficiently and effectively as a PLD, why would anyone then take a PLD over a Warrior, and then Warriors are in the same predicament as PLD's and getting doubled up on in Coil and any other future content because now we tank as good as PLD's but do more DPS as well in the process, so now PLD's will be here crying nerf Warriors DPS OR buff PLD's to Warriors DPS..... it is a never ending vicious circle.

I'm not interested in tanking as good as a PLD because I happen to like my DPS in tank spec and out of tank spec. If that is altered, it defeats the purpose of playing a Warrior unless they can make Warriors have a DPS stance so we can melee DPS also.

[Vactus]

I'm not interested in tanking as good as a PLD because I happen to like my DPS in tank spec and out of tank spec. If that is altered, it defeats the purpose of playing a Warrior unless they can make Warriors have a DPS stance so we can melee DPS also.

There is math out there that shows PLD has better dps than a WAR. Even so, the dps difference isn't large. Not enough to be excited over anyways.

As for the rest, I had only read a translation and it might have been a rough trans.

[Crimess]

There is math out there that shows PLD has better dps than a WAR. Even so, the dps difference isn't large. Not enough to be excited over anyways.

As for the rest, I had only read a translation and it might have been a rough trans.

That math is useless. I use both classes and WAR does out DPS the PLD. For some reason I can clear AK faster with my WAR than with a PLD.

[PiedPiper]

sniiiiip

A) "I can pull threat off the pld as warrior" : Spoilers, so could another paladin. There have been a few threads that have mentioned this, and its something that's not getting a lot of attention, but hate generation is not linear.At least, not between two tanks using enmity moves against each other. At any point in a fight, a tank can engage and begin using their threat moves and catch up to an established tank. It doesn't matter if the MT or OT is war or pld, or both. A great place to see this is in turn 5. Let one tank pull Twin, the other get adds, the tank that was on adds, if they walk over and go all out on twin, you'll notice their hate continually builds and can catch up to / pass the main tank, who will have had a 1-3 minute lead. The math on this is bizarre and I have been unable to actually work out how/why it does this, but it is repeatable and pretty obvious it works this way. It has nothing or next to nothing to do with the damage/threat difference in the two players. I'm good, I'm really good, but I'm not "lol I can shit all over your two minute head start" good. And since my FC's OT has gone all the way through the first four turns with me, I doubt he's awful :P So yes, you can pull in turn 2 on ads, cus apparently, thats the way the game is set up. I can pretty easily pull back off our other tank during swaps, and he can pull back off me, so clearly we are playing at a similar level (since we are able to pull off each other, neither has an advantage).

Does warrior have a hate cap advantage over pld? Idk, my bff jill. It'll be really hard to test this because there is a built in bonus to the second place tank's hate of some sort. If you are so arrogant as to think that what you're seeing is purely down to your "awesomeness" and not some sort of concequence of how the game is scritped, then i just dunno what to telll you. You can even see this in BG's clear video, watch the off tank near the start and what few glimpses of hate bars you get and you'll see he catches up to the main tank (who has him massively out geared).

Also, even if warrior does have a hate lead, what use is it? PLD can hold off any dps without making them slow down, aoe or single target. Also , our aoe threat sustain is better and doesn't waste the resource we use for single target threat (tp). Simply put, I don't need any more threat.

B) "Its toally cool I have a massive str advantage over the pld, this comparrison matters cus... stuff" So, heres the deal. If you want to compare teh classes in terms of their potential, they need to be in equal gear. If you are main tanking on warrior, you're going to be wearing full vitality build (cus, Idk if you've heard, but death sentence hits like a truck as it builds up), so yes it does matter that you're wearing dps accessories and comparing to a pld in tanking acessories. Do it again with both of you stacked the same way (either both in str or both in vit) and at least roughly equal gear. You'll find, as has everyone else that has done these comparrions dilligently, the classes are very close. If both classes are in tanking stance, their numbers are pretty close, if both are in dps stance, their numbers are pretty close.

C) I Clear ak faster on war than pld: Lol, guess you aren't sac pulling. I clear faster on my pally than your war :> Also, how is wanderer's palace going for you?

[Taemek]

B) If you are main tanking on warrior, you're going to be wearing full vitality build

Stopped reading here because you are clearly unaware of what the Warrior was wearing when you typed this OR are not aware what is BiS for Warriors at the current time.

[PiedPiper]

Stopped reading here because you are clearly unaware of what the Warrior was wearing when you typed this OR are not aware what is BiS for Warriors at the current time.

It was shown in the thread that in that example the warrior had a major str advantage.

Best in slot for warrior, atm is comprised of AF2, allagan, and heros, every slot of fending. Or were you planning on clearing coils in full str accessories while being the main tank? Here, educate me. What is warrior best in slot atm for main tanking?

Also, if you stoped reading thre, that's AFTER I explained why the annecdote of warrior being able to pull off paladin was pretty null and void, and you didn't bother to argue against that--you know, the actual meat of the post and the information that matters.

[Taemek]

It was shown in the thread that in that example the warrior had a major str advantage.

Best in slot for warrior, atm is comprised of AF2, allagan, and heros, every slot of fending. Or were you planning on clearing coils in full str accessories while being the main tank? Here, educate me. What is warrior best in slot atm for main tanking?

Oh really?

I guess everyone in this thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...zation-for-WAR. is wrong then?

Please do edumucate me. No wait, don't just edumucate me, edumucate the entire Warrior community.

[CurlyBruce]

It was shown in the thread that in that example the warrior had a major str advantage.

Best in slot for warrior, atm is comprised of AF2, allagan, and heros, every slot of fending. Or were you planning on clearing coils in full str accessories while being the main tank? Here, educate me. What is warrior best in slot atm for main tanking?

I also don't think he realizes that anything a WAR can wear for BiS a PLD can also wear and survive better with in MT scenario. Any gear differences are negligible because PLD and WAR share the same gear, barring Myth armor but base stats are the same and WAR arguably has worse secondary stats on their Myth armor. Baseline HP for both jobs is only off by 85 in favor of WAR. Any sufficient amount of VIT for WAR is more than sufficient for PLD because of it's suite of superior cooldowns.

[Phreak]

Stopped reading here because you are clearly unaware of what the Warrior was wearing when you typed this OR are not aware what is BiS for Warriors at the current time.

WAR BiS = Overgeared Healer

[Gamemako]

I could have sworn Yoshi said that instead of nerfing content or PLD, they'd be buffing (adjusting) WAR. A single PLD can tank Cadecus... something that wasn't intended.

Explicitly so. Amazingly, despite it being quoted to him several times in the past, Taemek still hasn't read it. Here's Reinhart's translation again:

y; people are saying war is weak so I wanted to go over that
y; people are comparing war to pld, the main part is the bahamut 1 and 4
y; this is our miss, and I apologize, the boss monster has buffs
y; once the boss has 3 buffs stacked up the tank won’t be able to pass
y; it’s set up that way
y; but PLD is able to live through it and that wasn’t supposed to be that way
y; PLD was able to pass that, and we’re talking about what to do this
y; changing the system isn’t good, so we have to make it where WAR can do what PLD can do
y; so we’ll make it where WAR can be good here as well
y; I went to Ifrit HM with WHM, tank needs to stop everything
y; they need to stop eruption and all that so I think it’s really hard to tank
y; the plan we had for Brutal Swing which uses GCD and PLD can use over
y; so it takes longer to use, so we’ll make adjustments to make it faster
y; people also are testing 2rath and use gensho (english?? the healing one)
y; You should wait for heal before using gensho as you get more heal
y; PLD has high VIT but with WAR you can heal about same amount and if you have wrath on you’ll take much more.
y; if you heal after wrath the buff is gone so you’ll get lower hp
y; how you run through the pattern is really hard
y; for healers if the WAR uses gensho it’s hard to heal
y; for that reason people think WAR is softer tank than PLD
y; so we think this is bit too hard so we’ll be making changes in 2.1
y; we got about 7 topics to change for WAR
y; just because we had the issue where PLD was able to pass the bahamut with this method
y; we need to make these changes now.
y; we won’t make it harder on the content so please don’t worry

Emphases mine. WAR is being buffed and PLD is not being nerfed -- this is stated explicitly, no interpretation needed.

The thing people don't seem to be aware of is, if Warriors were made to be able to tank as efficiently and effectively as a PLD, why would anyone then take a PLD over a Warrior, and then Warriors are in the same predicament as PLD's and getting doubled up on in Coil and any other future content because now we tank as good as PLD's but do more DPS as well in the process, so now PLD's will be here crying nerf Warriors DPS OR buff PLD's to Warriors DPS..... it is a never ending vicious circle... I'm not interested in tanking as good as a PLD because I happen to like my DPS in tank spec and out of tank spec. If that is altered, it defeats the purpose of playing a Warrior unless they can make Warriors have a DPS stance so we can melee DPS also.

WAR has no DPS difference as when not tanking compared to PLD -- they are identical, and this is by design. PLD as OT w/WAR MT is highest single-target damage potential, outstripping 2xWAR. WAR has a fairly small DPS difference that pretty well evaporates with any WAR in the party.

//EDIT:

As for the rest, I had only read a translation and it might have been a rough trans.

The translation is fine.