Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

[Maqaqa]

Well, based on Yoshi saying warriors were fine and not understanding that pallies would use their abilities to get through content, I think it is safe to assume that whatever changes are coming, they most certainly won't be what is expected. Probably won't make any sense whatsoever.

I am afraid you are right >.<

[Taemek]

Explicitly so. Amazingly, despite it being quoted to him several times in the past, Taemek still hasn't read it. Here's Reinhart's translation again:



Emphases mine. WAR is being buffed and PLD is not being nerfed -- this is stated explicitly, no interpretation needed.




WAR has no DPS difference as when not tanking compared to PLD -- they are identical, and this is by design. PLD as OT w/WAR MT is highest single-target damage potential, outstripping 2xWAR. WAR has a fairly small DPS difference that pretty well evaporates with any WAR in the party.

//EDIT:



The translation is fine.

You are still holding on to that poorly translated pos?

The English letter is more informative. Thanks for trying though. By the way, no one mentioned about the content being nerfed, anywhere.

And I would like to see real time parsing that PLD DPS is better then Warriors, please show us.

[Kal-El]

The DPS on PLD only exceeds WAR in Sword Oath (which I highly doubt you'll want to use in coil) but he is correct. PLDS can out DPS a WAR.

We still haven't seen the notes on the buffs which means I'd wait before making any negative comments.

Just because WARs are getting buffed doesn't mean they'll out do PLDs and you'll have Dual WARs instead of PLDs. The fact PLDs can already do the content means they'll always be viable. WARs can't do the content at all. So why people are against this buff is beyond me.

[Taemek]

The DPS on PLD only exceeds WAR in Sword Oath (which I highly doubt you'll want to use in coil) but he is correct. PLDS can out DPS a WAR.

We still haven't seen the notes on the buffs which means I'd wait before making any negative comments.

Just because WARs are getting buffed doesn't mean they'll out do PLDs and you'll have Dual WARs instead of PLDs. The fact PLDs can already do the content means they'll always be viable. WARs can't do the content at all. So why people are against this buff is beyond me.

If you wanted to compare Sword oath to no defiance which is a 25% damage gain for warriors + another 20% dmg gain from maim, I would be interested in seeing hard parsed numbers on that. Now if you are comparing Sword oath to still being in Defiance, well, I didn't think we were all that stupid to be arguing such a poor use of comparison. The rest of what you are saying I agree 100% with, I see a lot of unhappy campers still back here spewing out more theory crafting when the changes come about.

Now I would like to address something here that makes me laugh:

y; people are saying war is weak so I wanted to go over that
y; people are comparing war to pld, the main part is the bahamut 1 and 4
y; this is our miss, and I apologize, the boss monster has buffs
y; once the boss has 3 buffs stacked up the tank won’t be able to pass
y; it’s set up that way
y; but PLD is able to live through it and that wasn’t supposed to be that way
y; PLD was able to pass that, and we’re talking about what to do this
y; changing the system isn’t good, so we have to make it where WAR can do what PLD can do
y; so we’ll make it where WAR can be good here as well

Am I the only one to see the issue here?

[Kal-El]

If you wanted to compare Sword oath to no defiance which is a 25% damage gain for warriors + another 20% dmg gain from maim, I would be interested in seeing hard parsed numbers on that

I understand exactly where you're coming from as I was sceptical as well. But it was posted here by a user trying to show WARs out damaged PLDs and the math showed the opposite. They (being a WAR) were pretty pissed off by the findings, as was I.

Trying to find the post just now.

[Taemek]

I understand exactly where you're coming from as I was sceptical as well. But it was posted here by a user trying to show WARs out damaged PLDs and the math showed the opposite. They (being a WAR) were pretty pissed off by the findings, as was I.

Trying to find the post just now.

It ok Kal, I appreciate you trying to find the post, its all good, but unless people can start coming to the table with real time parses proving this stuff, then the math means nothing, especially if the math was achieved months ago before people started learning of the stat walls and the multi-roll algorithmic system with how the calculations take place. Anyone who has been playing these games for years knows that the math almost never holds up to real time parsing.

Secondly, if you are even in a position to be tanking with no Defiance up, what gear and acc set up is being assumed or what stats are being assumed?

[Paikis]

Anything a PLD can tank with sword oath on is content that is massively out-geared. For things that matter, the PLD will have shield oath on, the WAR will have defiance active, and the WAR will out-DPS and out-threat the PLD all day long.

You can maths this, and theory-craft that all you like. At the end of the day though, I haven't yet met a PLD that could keep hate off me when I want it. My raid uses me (WAR) and a PLD to tank coil and the parser I use shows me a solid 20-40% (depending on the fight) ahead of the PLD in my raid. I can't count the number of times I have pulled threat accidentally on ADS and adds because I wasn't paying attention and used Butcher's Block instead of Storm's Eye. Rips it right off him in 1-3 combos, no matter what. You can't even try to tell me that he's just bad, because honestly, you CANT screw up the Rage of Halone combo.

[Taemek]

Anything a PLD can tank with sword oath on is content that is massively out-geared. For things that matter, the PLD will have shield oath on, the WAR will have defiance active, and the WAR will out-DPS and out-threat the PLD all day long.

You can maths this, and theory-craft that all you like. At the end of the day though, I haven't yet met a PLD that could keep hate off me when I want it. My raid uses me (WAR) and a PLD to tank coil and the parser I use shows me a solid 20-40% (depending on the fight) ahead of the PLD in my raid. I can't count the number of times I have pulled threat accidentally on ADS and adds because I wasn't paying attention and used Butcher's Block instead of Storm's Eye. Rips it right off him in 1-3 combos, no matter what. You can't even try to tell me that he's just bad, because honestly, you CANT screw up the Rage of Halone combo.

^ This all day long.

Maths holds no ground in real time, ever.

[Kal-El]

Just to note I never said that a PLD would use Sword Oath instead of Shield Oath in any hard content as MT.

I just supported a post stating PLDs could out DPS WAR under specific circumstances and conditions.

WAR with Defiance up will out DPS PLD with Shield Oath up. Completely agree with you there.

The DPS on PLD only exceeds WAR in Sword Oath (which I highly doubt you'll want to use in coil)

[Taemek]

WAR with Defiance up will out DPS PLD with Shield Oath up. Completely agree with you there.

I just always assumed that people were smart enough to do a straight comparison, I guess humanity has no hope for the future.