Monk- general discussion and feedback

[NoctisUmbra]

I dodnt care about this. I know runs in Castrum with one tank and 7 whitemages and runs were EXTRIMLY very fast- much faster then normal raid. Does that meens that whitemage are the most powerfull DPS?- no, doesnt meen. I want to say (as for me)- I see problems in monk's skills and mechanics and I dont care about balance at all- if, by fixing monk other classes will become weaker, so it meens, that this classes must be fixed next. Problem exist- it must be fixed- I see problems in monk's skill's and mechanics. Bug or issues- doest metter. If, after fixing, will apper new bug, so, it must be fixed next. Logic is simple.

Fair enough. Since balance is agreed to not be part of the discussions here, and is accepted as being sound then let me simplify my stance as a whole:

I completely disagree that MNK needs changes to its core mechanics. I am only for slight tweaks to underused skills, such as One Ilm Punch and perhaps Fists of Wind. I am also entirely against any changes to the core mechanics as I quite enjoy the current design.

[DerpyCubone]

wait wait wait
"Because I never tested something so very specific as whether your DoT has to be stronger, or equal in strength, to overwrite."
You never hit a dot refresh before on your way to 50? Or were you 50 at the start of ARR? I'm not being a smartass here I'm generally wondering. Because that might explain alot. I was a Bard in 1.0 but remade on a fresh start server so I could play with some RL friends. If you didn't have the ARR solo questing experience, that honestly might explain your views of GL for solo/non-boss fight stuff.

From about the 30-40 range on Monk I thought about giving it up. It was annoying to quest with. Your ability to kill and move on was just meh. It sucked to see my Drg friend just rip through enemies, while I hit things with 130 attacks in the face so no crits while being unable to keep GL up because the next enemy I had to kill was 7 seconds away and I only had 4 to get there.

Also I can be a smartass all I want and point out hypocritcal things in your comments, like you have been doing to me anytime I mentioned DPS
Just like this!
"See, when you try to cling to that for like 3-4 posts in a thread and try to use it as ammunition to suggest I don't know how DoTs work or suggest it says a lot about my MNK then it's just funny/desperate."
"or when you chime in with support for suggested changes that will in fact upset the balance of DPS jobs by overpowering MNK."
Not asking for DPS changes, but you keep coming back to that in 3-4 posts. Says alot I think. I'm asking for a fun adjust, you keep bringing it around to DPS balance... granted anything that do will have to address that, but that can be done easy enough, alot of other games have, I don't see why XIV couldn't as well.
*Added Note, this late part was meant to be tongue in cheek, after rereading it i did not come across how I intended, I am not changing the words at all but just adding this note for clarification*

[DerpyCubone]

I dodnt care about this. I know runs in Castrum with one tank and 7 whitemages and runs were EXTRIMLY very fast- much faster then normal raid. Does that meens that whitemage are the most powerfull DPS?- no, doesnt meen. I want to say (as for me)- I see problems in monk's skills and mechanics and I dont care about balance at all- if, by fixing monk other classes will become weaker, so it meens, that this classes must be fixed next. Problem exist- it must be fixed- I see problems in monk's skill's and mechanics. Bug or issues- doest metter. If, after fixing, will apper new bug, so, it must be fixed next. Logic is simple.

Damnit why couldn't I have put it like that! Would have saved me some time. You smug little fool with your words and good usage! >.>

[Dhex]

I can be a smartass all I want

It's what makes the world go round!

:3

[DerpyCubone]

Fair enough. Since balance is agreed to not be part of the discussions here, and is accepted as being sound then let me simplify my stance as a whole:

I completely disagree that MNK needs changes to its core mechanics. I am only for slight tweaks to underused skills, such as One Ilm Punch and perhaps Fists of Wind. I am also entirely against any changes to the core mechanics as I quite enjoy the current design.

I can get behind that well enough =)

I disagree, but it's a good starting point lol

[Allyrion]

The facts I do know, such as the server ticks, the potency comparisons between DoT skills and non-DoT skills, and the risks associated with overwriting compared to the rewards, then it never occurs to me to spend time testing such a specific scenario that is, again, inconsequential. That is what I was trying to demonstrate with my previous post. Yet you keep quoting me like a child that wants gratification for having caught something.

Admittedly, there might be no case where this is a dps increase for a monk (unlike, say, bard).

Assuming you pop IR right before demolish. The latest you can clip the dot while under the buff is around 12 seconds in. This means you are potentially clipping 2 ticks which would make your demolish a 160 potency attack as opposed to a 240 potency attack. I do not think the 30% crit on the next dot would make up for such a loss.

Blood for Blood lasts for 20 seconds so if you refresh Demolish every 3rd cycle like you should be doing anyway, then you would get another BfB Demolish.

Fracture can possibly be clipped during IR but this may mess up your timers for getting two BfB Demolishes and Fractures, if your cds lined up together.

A case to gain dps by clipping may arise, but the situation is so conditional you may never come across it. Alternatively, clipping may lead to a major dps loss in the vast majority of situations.

I haven't ever tested if there's a hierarchy of buffs, like maybe you can't overwrite a BfB buff with an IR buff or vice versa? Maybe once it's buffed at all, it's on the same level.

Also I can be a smartass all I want and point out hypocritcal things in your comments, like you have been doing to me anytime I mentioned DPS
Just like this!
"See, when you try to cling to that for like 3-4 posts in a thread and try to use it as ammunition to suggest I don't know how DoTs work or suggest it says a lot about my MNK then it's just funny/desperate."
"or when you chime in with support for suggested changes that will in fact upset the balance of DPS jobs by overpowering MNK."
Not asking for DPS changes, but you keep coming back to that in 3-4 posts. Says alot I think. I'm asking for a fun adjust, you keep bringing it around to DPS balance... granted anything that do will have to address that, but that can be done easy enough, alot of other games have, I don't see why XIV couldn't as well.

You guys are just petty together =D

[DerpyCubone]

You guys are just petty together =D

I meant that to be tongue in cheek, it didn't come off that way =( Sorry lol

[NoctisUmbra]

wait wait wait
"Because I never tested something so very specific as whether your DoT has to be stronger, or equal in strength, to overwrite."
You never hit a dot refresh before on your way to 50? Or were you 50 at the start of ARR? I'm not being a smartass here I'm generally wondering. Because that might explain alot. I was a Bard in 1.0 but remade on a fresh start server so I could play with some RL friends. If you didn't have the ARR solo experience, that honestly might explain your views of GL and solo/non-boss fight stuff.

From about the 30-40 range on Monk I thought about giving it up. It was annoying to quest with. Your ability to kill and move on was just meh. It sucked to see my Drg friend just rip through enemies, while I hit things with 130 attacks in the face so no crits while being unable to keep GL up because the next enemy I had to kill was 7 seconds away and I only had 4 to get there.

I do not DoT refresh on MNK. Never had to. I knew right off the bat, from simple theorycrafting ( and then damage testing) that clipping my DoTs on MNK was a net DPS loss. Once I decided that "refreshing" DoTs on MNK is bad practice, I did not need to know the exact specific mechanics behind when I can or cannot overwrite. I just knew for a fact that an unbuffed DoT would not overwrite a buffed one.

Yes, I had all battle classes 50 coming into ARR (obv. besides ACN). I did, however, use beta phase 3 to roll a pugilist from 0 and level it all the way up to the cap at the time. That is how I first learned how to play the new MNK. Plenty of solo experience. I will admit that MNK isn't as good as some other jobs when it comes to solo play, due to being highly dependent on positional combos and having trouble chaining targets effectively.

However, do I need to look back through your posts and pick out your quote where you say you're fine with certain jobs being better at certain things? It seems like something you would do.

BRD is still going to remain the best job to go out solo farming with lol. Heck, I switch to BRD when I want to go farm mats.

Also I can be a smartass all I want and point out hypocritcal things in your comments, like you have been doing to me anytime I mentioned DPS
Just like this!
"See, when you try to cling to that for like 3-4 posts in a thread and try to use it as ammunition to suggest I don't know how DoTs work or suggest it says a lot about my MNK then it's just funny/desperate."
"or when you chime in with support for suggested changes that will in fact upset the balance of DPS jobs by overpowering MNK."
Not asking for DPS changes, but you keep coming back to that in 3-4 posts. Says alot I think. I'm asking for a fun adjust, you keep bringing it around to DPS balance... granted anything that do will have to address that, but that can be done easy enough, alot of other games have, I don't see why XIV couldn't as well.

I called you out on your smartass remark there because it was out of line. You were suggesting a contradiction in my posts by taking 2 bits out of context. It wasn't hypocritical. It would have been hypocritical if I suggested my personal parses were my sole evidence for suggesting MNK is amazing DPS.

[AccountBanned]

Ultimate point: Unless you've ruled player skill as a variable out from your "tests" by asserting that you, personally, tested each and every DPS job with optimal play and found your MNK DPS to be in the mid-range of the spectrum, then you haven't really tested anything at all.

So then I guess your ultimate point is that the damage you claim to put out is only due to your own skill level and cannot be traced back to Monk itself unless you yourself have played every single DPS class and tested all? That's what you said.

[Onyxys]

I want to say (as for me)- I see problems in monk's skills and mechanics and I dont care about balance at all- if, by fixing monk other classes will become weaker, so it meens, that this classes must be fixed next. Problem exist- it must be fixed- I see problems in monk's skill's and mechanics. Bug or issues- doest metter. If, after fixing, will apper new bug, so, it must be fixed next. Logic is simple.

I want to comment. Of course Im in care about balance, but for me highest priority is fixing something, what is undone or done in wrong way. If balance is nice and after fixing balance will shift left or right- It meens, that next step- must be made something to regain balance. BUT- as I sad- highest top priority to fix what is wrong or unfair even it meens to shift balance, because balance can be repaired