Monk- general discussion and feedback

[ghgh4545]

I've tested the damage in real fights against other monks and other classes to find out that Monks tend to be right in the middle when it comes to their DPS output in real fights. Greased lightning duration could remain untouched but the damage and/or speed increase could be increased to help out this job.

I'm 100% sure MNK blows other dps away in fights without interruptions?

[Shaone]

I have a nice idea about ONE ILm punch- an idea of accumulation of the charges and then releasing of these charges in one high-damage blast (maybe Aoe-blast). For example in monk's rotation is a skill (maybe already existing), and when monk uses this skill he gains one charge. Second using- two charges and then three charges. And then, by using ONE ILm punch monk releases these three charges in a high-damage blow. The main idea is simple

Hmm like Focus*7->Chakra did in XI. Yep it would be cool, but I think SE would be wary of anything that increases Monk damage output any further.

One idea I'm thinking is perhaps it could do the current dispelling of enemy buffs but also give a small enmity reduction.

[AccountBanned]

I'm 100% sure MNK blows other dps away in fights without interruptions?

How are you sure? Have you tested damage? That 100% number is as high as it gets man...would kind of like some proof if you have it. Like I said, I've tested REAL fights and their mid-ranged in their damage. Feel free to really test it yourself on a stationary target...not sure what fight that will be though... maybe Snake in coil?

[NoctisUmbra]

How are you sure? Have you tested damage? That 100% number is as high as it gets man...would kind of like some proof if you have it. Like I said, I've tested REAL fights and their mid-ranged in their damage. Feel free to really test it yourself on a stationary target...not sure what fight that will be though... maybe Snake in coil?

Please do tell how these "tests" of yours took place. Is it basically you parsing your team's attempts and the monk(s) placing near the middle on the list?

For every test you have such as that, I can tell you I have just as many where I, as the only MNK, place on top. Caduceus included. As far as stationary, uninterrupted DPS goes, nothing even comes close to MNK DPS. MNK was designed with content where they would lose their buffs every now and then in mind.

Ultimate point: Unless you've ruled player skill as a variable out from your "tests" by asserting that you, personally, tested each and every DPS job with optimal play and found your MNK DPS to be in the mid-range of the spectrum, then you haven't really tested anything at all.

The reason I know you haven't is because your conclusion is incorrect. I mean, seriously. Next you'll try to tell me BRD had the most DPS lol.

[Onyxys]

Some more ideas
1) Make Touch_of_Death an ability instead of now- weaponskill. It meens, that this little pause of using ToD will be cuted
2) To improve True STrike, because for now the 5% critical bonus from behind is just like big NOTHING and much more easier to use always TwSn instead of using TrSt in rotation

[MisakiSatomi]

If you're a good Monk, other class's DPS doesn't even stand a chance.
And now, the only time you're supposed to be losing GL are the primal fights.

[DerpyCubone]

Snip.

"Also, you cannot overwrite your DoT. Game will not let you unless you are more buffed than you were when you applied the previous." =/= Track server ticks for overwrites.

As far as endgame, Yea I haven't done much of coil, due to RL restraints I currently don't have time. That's ok I'm not complaining, but do you know why I can still talk about it? I can use a bit of inferred knowledge in the matter. I've never been shot, yet I know that it's going to hurt. I can apply the same thing here. I know losing GL with no gain is annoying for me and alot of other Monks, So for fights that aren't even in the game yet I know that annoyance could be there and would like to see it made better.

Also I'm not only talking about monk "endgame", which while I know your using as standard word for raiding, it really is on a person to person basis(I'm looking at you forever crafters!), I'm also commenting on Solo play as well. Something you nicely leave out in your replies, Kinda funny that. There are also dungeons, most bosses have 100% uptime(which is also kinda meh), but the trash on the way to the boss can just be so blah sometimes. Tank hesitates between a pull that you could keep GL up on and it falls out, that's annoying.

Bottom line is this. While I do not want all DPS to be the same, and I do not mind a fight were one Job has a small advantage over another. I find that GL is overly restrictive. There are fights in the game currently where it drops off through no fault of the player, DURING a dps phase, not even a "hide from damage" phase. It is also hard to keep up while soloing, combining that with Monks low base ability potency makes things alittle tougher for a Monk then for other DPS classes while on your own. Soloing is more then fates btw, for whoever said that before... people gotta get mats from somewhere. Anyways, there needs to be more counterplay involved with GL for me. I'm not saying it should be a static buff, it should be something you could screw up. Maybe make it a spendable resource or something I dunno. But just as a thing that happens naturally over the course of a fight, then wears off arbitrarily, that isn't a great mechanic to me.

I'm going to leave it at that, I've said what I've needed to say. Feel free to disagree all you want but I've laid my case out as best I can:
I'm not asking for more DPS or an easier rotation, but for adjusting an aspect of Monk that feels sloppy.

[Reyki]

also , reduce or change the demolition animation , it's way to long, how much time it made drop my gl3 because sometimes , when i make it , it don't work and have to spam it another time to refresh my gl -_- .

[Onyxys]

also , reduce or change the demolition animation , it's way to long, how much time it made drop my gl3 because sometimes , when i make it , it don't work and have to spam it another time to refresh my gl -_- .

Not only Demolition, but Dragon kick too

[NoctisUmbra]

"Also, you cannot overwrite your DoT. Game will not let you unless you are more buffed than you were when you applied the previous." =/= Track server ticks for overwrites.

You are incredibly fond of that quote aren't you. Sticking to it with such desperation. You also seem to be quite fond of avoiding my point.

You would have to be very mindful of what buffs you had when you applied your DoTs in order to deduce whether or not your overwrite attempt will be successful. That's one. Furthermore, you will have to make sure that the final tick of the DoT (which due to server time ticks and how that works will happen during the final 3 seconds of the DoT uptime) actually went off before overwriting it in order to not clip it and lower your Demolish damage, and in turn your DPS.

That is what I am referring to. All of that to be able to swap your Snap Punch for a Demolish 1 rotation earlier, or do your ToD 1 GCD earlier, effectively resulting in a very minimal, theoretical DPS increase. The risk? If you were mistaken about the buffs or the final DoT tick, you risk potentially failing to place the buff, which means wasting a GCD at best, potentially screwing up your rotation and losing GL3 at worst or clipping your DoT and effectively lowering its DPS.

Read that a few times if you need to. Sure I may not be the best at conveying my knowledge, but honestly if you feel the need to post that quote again I'll just tell you now you're lost.

As far as endgame, Yea I haven't done much of coil, due to RL restraints I currently don't have time. That's ok I'm not complaining, but do you know why I can still talk about it? I can use a bit of inferred knowledge in the matter. I've never been shot, yet I know that it's going to hurt. I can apply the same thing here. I know losing GL with no gain is annoying for me and alot of other Monks, So for fights that aren't even in the game yet I know that annoyance could be there and would like to see it made better.

You just compared playing a video game at endgame to getting shot. Right. Bad analogy, to say the least. That's ok, most people suck at analogies.

Experience matters. However, you do make a good point in escaping back to your opinionated arguments. Back to that annoyance. Sure, let's not talk endgame. Let's not talk raids and content around which jobs are balanced. Nope. Let's talk about how losing GL3 makes you feel.

Sorry but, jobs don't get balance adjustments based on some highly subjective view on how a mechanic should work versus how it works. Job core mechanics are designed around style and balance, not feelings. Making GL stacks easier to keep up is not a QoL change. That is a balance adjustment.

Also I'm not only talking about monk "endgame", which while I know your using as standard word for raiding, it really is on a person to person basis(I'm looking at you forever crafters!), I'm also commenting on Solo play as well. Something you nicely leave out in your replies, Kinda funny that. There are also dungeons, most bosses have 100% uptime(which is also kinda meh), but the trash on the way to the boss can just be so blah sometimes. Tank hesitates between a pull that you could keep GL up on and it falls out, that's annoying.

Trash doesn't matter. However, I will humor you. You only really need to keep GL3 up between pulls if you are trying to run at high efficiency (like a speedrun). At that point, you need to be on the same page with your tank. The scenario you mention does not point to a problem in how GL stacks work, but rather a problem in communication between team members. That same tank can decided to run around like a headless chicken when tanking and make your life hell when it comes to getting hits in and keeping stacks. Doesn't mean they need to make GL upkeep easier.

As for solo play, this game has made it quite clear that solo play isn't the focus beyond basic run around quests. Even then, keeping up GL isn't an issue, so not sure why you even bring that up.

100% uptime fights are where MNK shines. Typically though, they don't last long enough for MNK to really pull ahead of other more burst-oriented DPS jobs which will typically start with higher DPS.

Good examples are Demon Wall or Anantabogas at Amdapor Keep. Due to 100% uptime, a MNK will shine in both fights with a burn strategy. However, with said strategy Demon Wall doesn't even live long enough for a big gap to emerge. Ananta, on the other hand, is basically a MNK's bitch.

Bottom line is this. While I do not want all DPS to be the same, and I do not mind a fight were one Job has a small advantage over another. I find that GL is overly restrictive. There are fights in the game currently where it drops off through no fault of the player, DURING a dps phase, not even a "hide from damage" phase. It is also hard to keep up while soloing, combining that with Monks low base ability potency makes things a little tougher for a Monk then for other DPS classes while on your own. Soloing is more then fates btw, for whoever said that before... people gotta get mats from somewhere. Anyways, there needs to be more counterplay involved with GL for me. I'm not saying it should be a static buff, it should be something you could screw up. Maybe make it a spendable resource or something I dunno. But just as a thing that happens naturally over the course of a fight, then wears off arbitrarily, that isn't a great mechanic to me.

I do not see how keeping GL3 up is difficult in solo play. You're hitting mobs that are basically hitting you back. Everything you do will connect. So... idk about that. Soloing may be difficult (for some people I guess) for other reasons, but GL3 upkeep isn't even close to being an issue in solo play.

Also there you go again with the DPS mention. Losing GL3 isn't unfair to MNK. It isn't. Stop saying it. False False False. That's what I've been trying to make you understand. It is intended. You simply cannot get your mind around that.

Long-lasting fights come with such breaks both as a means for DDs to recover some TP (a form of pacing) as well as balance checks to jobs like MNK and SMN that work exceptionally well in sustained battles and thus require to be walled every now and then to drop back down, relatively, to the realm of the more burst-oriented DPS jobs.

Everything you say gives the impression you think MNK is being unfairly punished by losing GL3 stacks. It isn't. It still pulls off higher DPS in long fights than most if not all other DPS jobs. So I'm really not seeing the punishment here. All I'm seeing is you get a little salty when you see your GL3 drop off. That just means the job isn't playing the way you envision it.

I'm going to leave it at that, I've said what I've needed to say. Feel free to disagree all you want but I've laid my case out as best I can:
I'm not asking for more DPS or an easier rotation, but for adjusting an aspect of Monk that feels sloppy.

Right. I'm not disagreeing with you here in that you've simply been voicing your opinions. Pure and simple. Opinions. That's fine. The forums are a place for opinions of the players as well.

The problem arises when you try to present your opinions as being more than that - like there's an actual balance problem, or something is unfair and needs to be changed, etc... or when you chime in with support for suggested changes that will in fact upset the balance of DPS jobs by overpowering MNK.


TL;DR:

You're arguments are entirely opinionated. That is fine. Opinions simply do not make for good support for balance adjustments - which the OP is comprised of.