Monk- general discussion and feedback

[DerpyCubone]

Snip.

Again, for the last time, The DPS output isn't the issue, it is the hard halt to rotation through no fault of the players and nothing skill can overcome. It is not a tide, a give and take, a flow of battle. It is a ramp up, then a sudden cut off. It's climbing a mountain, then teleporting down.

Let's turn this around a bit. In a fight where you can keep GL up the while time, isn't that a bit unfair to other DPS? The monk will outperform them. On the other hand, no fight should be made and them go "oh the monk will keep GL... lets throw a vanish in there to wipe it off" That's lazy class design.

I guess what it boils down to is that the game is removing my GL, It's not falling off because I screwed up somewhere, It's off because the game says so via RNG or fight mechanics. That leads to more pressure during fights to get it back up, a harder time soloing, a harder time during trash portions of dungeons (I know trash doesn't matter but time = money and all that jazz). I think that is sloppy and can be improved. I'm not sure how exactly. There are several ideas, some would result in monk being OP, others are at least on the right track.

[NoctisUmbra]

snip

And again, it's a matter of your personal perception. As long as the DPS balance is there, there's really no need for them to break a working design and fix it for something so subjective.

I don't get why the mechanic is causing you so much stress/pressure but ultimately I don't see anything wrong with how GL works right now.

[DerpyCubone]

And again, it's a matter of your personal perception. As long as the DPS balance is there, there's really no need for them to break a working design and fix it for something so subjective.

I don't get why the mechanic is causing you so much stress/pressure but ultimately I don't see anything wrong with how GL works right now.

Because the balance won't always be there. There will be fights were you can keep GL up all the time, and there will be fights when it will be extremely hard to keep up. That is part of the reason I would like to see this adjusted in the future.

[NoctisUmbra]

Because the balance won't always be there. There will be fights were you can keep GL up all the time, and there will be fights when it will be extremely hard to keep up. That is part of the reason I would like to see this adjusted in the future.

Assumptions.

SE devs designed the jobs and balanced them. SE devs designed the content. They are going to continue to do so. Up to even the most recent communications from SE that involved upcoming adjustments to various jobs, they mention tweaking content so that melee DPS are less punished.

They design content with all jobs in mind, or at least strive to. No real issue currently that hasn't been addressed.

[DerpyCubone]

Up to even the most recent communications from SE that involved upcoming adjustments to various jobs, they mention tweaking content so that melee DPS are less punished.

I would like to highlight this point in your qoute, so your saying because their going to adjust things, that they won't adjust GL? That logic doesn't make sense. If something is in need of adjusting, SE will adjust it. I think GL needs a tweek, others do as well. Now if SE does that is a different story, but these are the same people that said Warrior was fine, then that they were going to adjust warrior. Their play team is so much smaller then the community. They can't get to everything and they see less, which is understandable. So by trying to bring this to attention, maybe they will look at it and go "oh hey yea, this other thing would work better".

Didn't even see this:
"They design content with all jobs in mind, or at least strive to. No real issue currently that hasn't been addressed."
The fact that they are having to address things means that they did not have all the fights tuned to all jobs.

[NoctisUmbra]

I would like to highlight this point in your qoute, so your saying because their going to adjust things, that they won't adjust GL? That logic doesn't make sense. If something is in need of adjusting, SE will adjust it. I think GL needs a tweek, others do as well. Now if SE does that is a different story, but these are the same people that said Warrior was fine, then that they were going to adjust warrior. Their play team is so much smaller then the community. They can't get to everything and they see less, which is understandable. So by trying to bring this to attention, maybe they will look at it and go "oh hey yea, this other thing would work better".

Didn't even see this:
"They design content with all jobs in mind, or at least strive to. No real issue currently that hasn't been addressed."
The fact that they are having to address things means that they did not have all the fights tuned to all jobs.

Did you even read the statement regarding what balance we can expect for 2.1? They listed what is to be adjusted. Explicit mentions to WAR, DRG getting buffs, BRD getting a nerf, and content being slightly tweaked to not be as punishing to melee jobs.

No mention of adjustments to MNK. If for some odd reason they decided to touch GL, MNK's core mechanic, it would merit a mention.

Don't try to compare this to WAR. WAR clearly needs some tweaking. You can see it in content... what with WAR being almost entirely locked out of Coil at the moment. MNK, on the other hand, is widely used and favored as a DPS job.

Also, yes they are adjusting content because a lot of it slightly favors ranged jobs. The risk/reward is a bit off. Still, it is DRGs getting the short end of that stick more so than MNKs. The solid teams out there know to bring a MNK to content because they know their DPS is worth the extra hands-on healing they need.

SE has a small team team of testers, yes. They do indeed look to us for feedback, true. However the forums aren't their primary source for information when it comes to balance adjustments. It is the game, and how the community at large is tackling content. How the community has decided to use the various jobs. As explained above, MNK has a nice, snug fit in basically every fight in game right now and requires little if any attention when it comes to adjustments.

[DerpyCubone]

Snip.

I never said they were going to change monk in 2.1. I said they had to adjust things because things needed adjusting. Things are out of balance, not working as intended, whatever reason you wanna give. You had mentioned that all the fights were tuned to the jobs, I was using 2.1 to point out that they are not. So a lopsided fight is very possible. Also I wasn't comparing monk to warrior in terms of output/usefulness. I was saying that just because SE says/doesn't say things one day, doesn't mean a change isn't needed/coming the next.

As far as other class balances, yea there are some nerfs and buffs needed other places. Again I'm not asking for a change in DPS output on monk, Just a change to make it smoother.

A good example that has happend, look at it like the SCH/SMN pet bar. Before you couldn't use it and cast at the same time. Now you can. It's a nice QoL change. I view this along those lines... just not as needed.

[Allyrion]

Snip.

That's all just personal preference though. Not "lazy design".
You don't attack Garuda while she's doing her wind attack. You hide behind a rock because the game made you.
Is that lazy design? Because you couldn't keep attacking?

You lost GL3 while hiding. What's the difference? The boss just said they were better than you. If you tried to keep your flow of battle, you'd die in one shot. Just accept it. There's no flow if you're hiding behind a rock or waiting to be geocrushed etc.
So you start getting back into the flow after with the persistence of a monk!

Don't blame the design just cause you feel frustrated and can't appreciate it.
I think a sudden drop off is appropriate. It's not always about skill to keep it up. Sometimes there's nothing you can do.
That's life, right? Well, virtual life. We have to hide behind a rock sometimes when we'd rather be bashing Garuda's face in. That's virtual life too.

They may improve the base design of the monk in future patches. But first they need to build on what they have so the monk role has a chance to find its place.
Then they can improve on the base to really bring out the monk job in relation to other classes.
What we've got is what we have to go on. So I hope you all stop trying to make it something it isn't just because you can't appreciate what it is.

[DerpyCubone]

Snip.

Pretty decent point, but I would argue that with Garuda, I'm still actively fighting. I'm choosing to allow my GL to wear off to avoid a large hit. I could attempt to live through the blast and keep my DPS up, I've lived before, but that's not the choice I'm making. In that specific instance, I'm still in control. Limited control, and there is a pretty clear right answer, but still control.

Also, to counter your last thing there. Don't settle, if something could be better, strive to make it that way.