Monk- general discussion and feedback

[Cynric]

Noctis is pretty much right on the money. If they wanted us to always have GL 3, it'd be a passive, not a buff. You all are treating it like its a passive always on ability that just drops off for no reason.


No GL - Good Damage
GL 1 - Better Damage
GL 2 - Much better Damage
GL 3 - Best Damage mixed with basically 2.0 s GCD

If you're always at the top end of your DPS, then you're always dishing out your buffed damage at all times. As opposed to every other class that waits on CD's throughout parts of the fight where they lose their buffs. We just top out and stay topped out the whole fight? What kind of mentality is that? The majority of the fights we always have an XX% DMG buff going on. Losing GL3 isn't the end of the world. When bosses disappear everyone has to ramp back up to their top damage. It's not like this is something that we solely get affected by.

So all you're really asking is to make Monk more overpowered. Don't forget that not a single DPS job stays at their optimum DPS throughout an entire fight. We all deal with cooldowns and buff upkeep, along with proper DoT usage. Some of them just have it a bit easier than others(bard) but it's not like said class is staying at their current place. It's also not like the fights aren't being tuned to be more melee friendly to begin with.

Add all that together and by the end of the patches we'd just be taking bards place.

[Naelle]

I don't think anyone is asking for buffs. Just simple quality of life changes. #1 issue is the complete uselessness of one ilm punch. The only fight I can think of that it might be useful for is the boss in Haukke but due to level sync you don't even have it.

[Cynric]

I don't think anyone is asking for buffs. Just simple quality of life changes. #1 issue is the complete uselessness of one ilm punch. The only fight I can think of that it might be useful for is the boss in Haukke but due to level sync you don't even have it.

Making Greased Lightning practically permanent goes beyond a quality of life change.

[NoctisUmbra]

I don't think anyone is asking for buffs. Just simple quality of life changes. #1 issue is the complete uselessness of one ilm punch. The only fight I can think of that it might be useful for is the boss in Haukke but due to level sync you don't even have it.

Well yea, I think we can all agree that One Ilm Punch needs work. However, just about everything else in OPs list shouldn't be touched.

[Allyrion]

One Ilm Punch either needs work or some usefulness in content.
Shoulder Tackle can be tweaked. I'm fine either way.
Twin snakes buff extended 2-3s so you don't need skill speed to include it.

That's it. No one *likes* losing GL3, but monks are clearly based on MOMENTUM. Once we're balanced around losing GL3 sometimes, what's wrong with that design?
Monk isn't perfect, but what it needs are tweaks not redesign.
Short buffs are part of the base design.

What I would like (and this is for all classes, sort of) is more unique class utility. Some abilities that no one else has, that your party notices and values.
Mantra is nice, One Ilm Punch *could* be one if there was anywhere it was functional.
It doesn't need to destroy balance. Something small where people are like "hey, we have a monk, that makes things a little easier".
But nothing that would justify stacking monks.
We don't buff anybody else so no one is particularly happy to see us in a party. I'd like a change to THAT more than any increased buffs or decreased cooldowns.

[DerpyCubone]

Snip.

On the flip side, monk requires GL3 because of their low base damage abilities. This is the reason they are able to compete with other DPS. They aren't going to win the day hitting between 130 and 180 potency attacks to DRG's 150-300. I would completely agree that if monk had access to higher potency attacks then GL3 wearing off would be no issue (and in need of a nerf at that) but that is not what is happening. Monks naturally don't hit as hard, and GL is the difference maker. So it is just very frustrating when it wears off through no fault of your own. No other class loses that much DPS or takes as long to get it back. I'm not saying that all classes should be the same, or that monk shouldn't have some ramp up time. I picture Monks as something of a train, takes awhile to get going but then you can't stop them... expect you can stop them by teleporting away for 4 seconds.

[NoctisUmbra]

snip

The key point is, GL3 puts MNK dps well above every other job. Thus, losing it a few times is expected in terms of balance.

The misconception going around is that MNK needs GL3 up all the time to be competent in DPS. No. A MNK with GL3 up all the time has no competition in DPS in a sustained fight.

[Naelle]

The key point is, GL3 puts MNK dps well above every other job. Thus, losing it a few times is expected in terms of balance.

The misconception going around is that MNK needs GL3 up all the time to be competent in DPS. No. A MNK with GL3 up all the time has no competition in DPS in a sustained fight.

I agree with this. Monk does great damage while losing stacks multiple times throughout a boss fight. It does suck to lose all of your stacks and I feel like a longer cooldown, ranged attack could be a solution to two problems (the other being one ilm). 60-180 second cooldown (I'm not a balance dev clearly) ranged attack that resets timer but does not give a stack could give us that decision in a fight; when do I need to keep my stacks. Put haymaker in one ilms place and change one ilm to wave fist (Tactics woot). My $.02.

[Flionheart]

OIP isn't useless due to the skill being UP, it's useless due to the lack of interesting mobs who self buff and other shenanigans.

There's similar problems with abilities like Blunt Arrow that have incredibly niche situational use.

[DerpyCubone]

The key point is, GL3 puts MNK dps well above every other job. Thus, losing it a few times is expected in terms of balance.

The misconception going around is that MNK needs GL3 up all the time to be competent in DPS. No. A MNK with GL3 up all the time has no competition in DPS in a sustained fight.

Your not getting what I'm trying to saying. I might not be coming across correctly. I'm not trying to focus on the damage output, those numbers can always be changed and likely will at some point. I'm talking about the fight experience. It is stressful to lose a chuck of your damage going into a burn phase and have to spend time ramping it back up. Keeping up your stacks through rotation, knowing when it hit demolish last second so it doesn't fall off but also not overwriten by your last one so you lose you stacks... that's fun. That's why I play monk, for the mini game of "what can I squeeze in my rotation". But what's not fun to me, is losing that mini game because I'm a monk and this battle says so! No one else has that. It needs tweaking.

If your looking for my opinion on how to balance it, I would do this
Replace GL3 with GL5, gain a stack every 10 levels. GL5 = GL3 buff wise. Same duration, lose 2 stacks per when it goes to wear off. It would slow monks down at the start a bit, but help them keep up pressure after non-damage phases.