Is Rage of Halone Overpowered in GLA/PLD's Kit?

[Leiron]

If Halone were nerfed in any way except for the removal of the debuff, it would need to have its damage or enmity buffed up. It takes the 20% increase from Maim and 66% uptime on Storm's Eye for WAR to match a PLD's enmity generation from Halone spam, and tank damage/enmity is one of the few things about tanks that is actually well balanced (WAR and PLD do nearly the same damage and generate nearly the same enmity).

Can you explain that part for me or link to a post where you do?
I had thought that Rage of Halone and Butcher's Block had the same enmity multipliers, and from my observation of my Bravura vs Curtana +1, it seems Warrior's BB hits a smidge harder due to the higher potency, and should generate more agro.
Wouldnt that suggest a Warrior's enmity generation is slightly higher?

[Kitru]

Can you explain that part for me or link to a post where you do?

It's in my sig.

I had thought that Rage of Halone and Butcher's Block had the same enmity multipliers, and from my observation of my Bravura vs Curtana +1, it seems Warrior's BB hits a smidge harder due to the higher potency, and should generate more agro.
Wouldnt that suggest a Warrior's enmity generation is slightly higher?

Defiance has a 25% damage penalty whereas Shield Oath only has a 20%. Fight or Flight is also a *lot* stronger than Berserk. Just comparing BB combo v. Halone doesn't really give you the whole picture because there are a *lot* of other variables involved. WAR enmity generation is *slightly* higher than a PLD's, but not by much.

[SwordCoheir]

Defiance has a 25% damage penalty whereas Shield Oath only has a 20%. *snip char. limit*

Only WAR's damage thresholds are alot higher than PLD, and any WAR worth half a salt is going to at least keep Maim up a majority of the time to supplement that damage penalty. Let me put it to you this way, in full DL gear with +30 STR mods, Sword Oath, Relic +1, STR DL/Hero Accessories and DPS buffs, the highest I've ever ever hit on PLD was 699, on WAR with Lv55 VIT Accessories, +30 VIT mods, Ifrits Axe, full DL, Defiance, Maim, w/o Berserk I've hit for 875 and can crit in the 600-800 range quite often despite the PLD having higher STR and Better weapon. That difference in damage alone will give the WAR an edge in Enmity generation, proving that the WAR does know what they are doing.

[Leiron]

Only WAR's damage thresholds are alot higher than PLD, and any WAR worth half a salt is going to at least keep Maim up a majority of the time to supplement that damage penalty. Let me put it to you this way, in full DL gear with +30 STR mods, Sword Oath, Relic +1, STR DL/Hero Accessories and DPS buffs, the highest I've ever ever hit on PLD was 699, on WAR with Lv55 VIT Accessories, +30 VIT mods, Ifrits Axe, full DL, Defiance, Maim, w/o Berserk I've hit for 875 and can crit in the 600-800 range quite often despite the PLD having higher STR and Better weapon. That difference in damage alone will give the WAR an edge in Enmity generation, proving that the WAR does know what they are doing.

I do not believe you're considering how effective Sword Oath's effect is.

[Paikis]

I do not believe you're considering how effective Sword Oath's effect is.

You aren't tanking anything that matters in Sword Oath. For things that do matter, the PLD has 'enough' threat generation, but it still isn't anything like what a Warrior can do.

[Leiron]

You aren't tanking anything that matters in Sword Oath.

Irrelevant, if you are doing a comparison of War DPS to PLD DPS, then you compare them as appropriate.

Warrior without defiance vs PLD with Sword oath.
In such a scenario, the two are very close if not the exact same.

When you consider tanking/
Shield oath is 20%.
Defiance is 25%.
You're only doing SLIGHTLY less damage than a Warrior in Defiance mode vs PLD in Shield oath mode, to the point that it does not even matter.
Yes, Warrior has the ability to provide stronger burst, but that is irrelevant because in the end, over the course of the encounter, they come out to roughly the same.

Let alone that in terms of threat generation, Warrior is only SLIGHTLY better than it as well, and that's only because of BB>BB>SE constantly being used.
Paladin doesn't have to apply a debuff to create maximum threat, and it has FoF, where as WAR has Berserk which is weaker than FoF.

Fact of the matter is threat is threat.
As long as you are top of the list and maintain being top of the list, then it does not matter.

[OmegaSinX]

I do not believe you're considering how effective Sword Oath's effect is.

Sword Oath only effects PLD auto attack. If it boosted Abilities power too it would be overpowered. I have both WAR and PLD, and I've done some testing with PLD Sword Oath vs Shield. PLD in Sword Oath barely beats My WAR in Defiance. War still out DPS PLD Sword Oath due too the several mechanics stacked against PLD. 1. WAR has higher potency attacks. 2. Maim & Storm Eye which have no cool down. 3. Berserk 4. Internal Release 5. Vengeance. 6. Longer DoT. 7. Higher Weapon Auto Attack Damage ( WAR 51.52, PLD 35.57 with Relic)

[Viridiana]

Sword Oath only effects PLD auto attack. If it boosted Abilities power too it would be overpowered. I have both WAR and PLD, and I've done some testing with PLD Sword Oath vs Shield. PLD in Sword Oath barely beats My WAR in Defiance. War still out DPS PLD Sword Oath due too the several mechanics stacked against PLD. 1. WAR has higher potency attacks. 2. Maim & Storm Eye which have no cool down. 3. Berserk 4. Internal Release 5. Vengeance. 6. Longer DoT. 7. Higher Weapon Auto Attack Damage ( WAR 51.52, PLD 35.57 with Relic)

If you're running off a parser, you should note that xiv app doesn't pick up Sword Oath damage.

[Leiron]

You do realize you are suggesting that a Warrior with a 25% damage debuff is outperforming a Paladin in sword oath yes?
Just...wow...
Seriously...just...wow.
You have to be doing something REALLY wrong, to be outperforming PLD in sword oath while you have defiance up.

[OmegaSinX]

You do realize you are suggesting that a Warrior with a 25% damage debuff is outperforming a Paladin in sword oath yes?
Just...wow...
Seriously...just...wow.
You have to be doing something REALLY wrong, to be outperforming PLD in sword oath while you have defiance up.

1. Don't believe, go test it yourself.
2. You do realize Maim+Storm Eye Negates The -25% Damage right ? Also These impact all attacks and not just auto-attack. Not to mention War's can use unchained pushing DPS even more.

3. You forget Defiance Boostes Crits. Now add Internal Release to that and you have +30% Crits while its up.

and Lastly to Respond to your quote

How hard is it to Mess up PLDs 123 Combo?....please. If you havent played WAR please dont speak on topics you know nothing about. I've hit over 700 crits with my war(WARs crit more often btw). I have yet to see a Crit that hits harder than 600 with my PLD. I hit 500+ crits in defiance on the regular with WAR, when I see those kind of numbers on my PLD its a surprise because Spirit Within is my best move and a good crit with that is severly impacted by timing and luck when tanking. Below is a video of WAR's DPS Potential


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxMxLb3qki0