Is Rage of Halone Overpowered in GLA/PLD's Kit?

[Jubez187]

So I was pretty excited to get this skill back when I was level 26, but I've come to grow a little annoyed with this. Why? Because I think there's way too much in one skill.

A weapon skill for a tank should/can do 3 things:
-Gain hate/threat/aggro/enmity/whatever
-DPS
-Utility

The problem with RoH is that it's your best enmity weapon skill, your highest single target DPS weapon skill, and a good utility skill. I feel like one of those 3 should go to a new skill, or a completely separate skill.

Another suggestion is to keep the skill the same, but make it a casting skill and have it shoot out in a line. This would at least bring a little more risk to the skill and wouldn't allow you to slide around during a blade storm to dodge AoE's.

Note that I'm not asking for GLA/PLD nerfs..so please don't comment things such as "How would we tank this without RoH" or "You need the skill". I would want the GLA/PLD to be just as strong as it is right now.

NOTE: In the title I am saying "overpowered in GLA/PLD's KIT" this means that I don't think RoH is breaking the game, I'm saying that relative to all the other skills it's too dominate..lowering the decision paths/lowering the skill cap.

[Kitru]

If Halone were nerfed in any way except for the removal of the debuff, it would need to have its damage or enmity buffed up. It takes the 20% increase from Maim and 66% uptime on Storm's Eye for WAR to match a PLD's enmity generation from Halone spam, and tank damage/enmity is one of the few things about tanks that is actually well balanced (WAR and PLD do nearly the same damage and generate nearly the same enmity).

I'll agree that Halone seems to have too much awesomeness lumped onto it, but it's hard to figure out what exactly would need to be done in order to complicate PLD's rotation up. One option would be to actually *buff* Halone's damage but add an mp cost to it so that you have to rotate in Riot Blades. Add in a tertiary combo for Riot Blade that either applies the STR debuff (to take some of the "awesome" off of Halone) or provides some other (non-damage) benefit with potency 280, and you'd have to buff up Halone to 400 to equate to the same enmity/sec (might be kinda kewl though it seems like a *really* high number). The tertiary for Riot Blade *could* do something like +10% STR and it would lower the necessary potency on Halone, but that just goes to show you how wonky it would be to swap out damage/enmity on Halone or add in new combos. WAR gets a *lot* out of Maim/SE; without just copying that for PLD, you have to get some really lopsided numbers.

[Tanaya]

Overpowered is a pretty poor word for what you're describing.

That said, you -are- asking for a nerf.

[Zoxx]

The skill is fine as it is. To reap the benefits of it, you need to use it in a combo. If you just went around spamming RoH, you'd do significantly less DPS and in the long run, enmity generation because the raw attack only does 100 potency.

It also isn't our highest damage ability. The potency in combo is 260. Our highest damage ability, Spirits Within, is 300 potency; you get it at level 45.

When you say utility, I assume you mean the -10% STR debuff from the RoH combo. It doesn't do as much as you might think it does. Definitely not a deal breaker.

Adding a cast mechanic to the skill wouldn't do anything but render it useless. In an 8 man, you need to be constantly generating threat to keep up with the large amounts of damage and healing going on. Having to stop and cast, giving up a lot of our off GCD abilties that we have (provoke, spirits within, circle of scorn) would put us behind greatly.

TL;DR: No.

[Leiron]

If Halone were nerfed in any way except for the removal of the debuff, it would need to have its damage or enmity buffed up. It takes the 20% increase from Maim and 66% uptime on Storm's Eye for WAR to match a PLD's enmity generation from Halone spam, and tank damage/enmity is one of the few things about tanks that is actually well balanced (WAR and PLD do nearly the same damage and generate nearly the same enmity).

Can you explain that part for me or link to a post where you do?
I had thought that Rage of Halone and Butcher's Block had the same enmity multipliers, and from my observation of my Bravura vs Curtana +1, it seems Warrior's BB hits a smidge harder due to the higher potency, and should generate more agro.
Wouldnt that suggest a Warrior's enmity generation is slightly higher?

[Jubez187]

If you just went around spamming RoH, you'd do significantly less DPS and in the long run, enmity generation because the raw attack only does 100 potency.

It also isn't our highest damage ability. The potency in combo is 260. Our highest damage ability, Spirits Within, is 300 potency; you get it at level 45.

When you say utility, I assume you mean the -10% STR debuff from the RoH combo. It doesn't do as much as you might think it does. Definitely not a deal breaker.

Spirits within isn't a weapon skill. And obvi I know that you can't just spam RoH but I mean the RoH combo rotation. Also, you're assuming that there wouldn't be any compensation (which I specifically stated we would need some). Obviously if they nerfed RoH on live and didn't do anything else we'd be in deep trouble. I'm just saying that we need a little spice.

[Kitru]

Can you explain that part for me or link to a post where you do?

It's in my sig.

I had thought that Rage of Halone and Butcher's Block had the same enmity multipliers, and from my observation of my Bravura vs Curtana +1, it seems Warrior's BB hits a smidge harder due to the higher potency, and should generate more agro.
Wouldnt that suggest a Warrior's enmity generation is slightly higher?

Defiance has a 25% damage penalty whereas Shield Oath only has a 20%. Fight or Flight is also a *lot* stronger than Berserk. Just comparing BB combo v. Halone doesn't really give you the whole picture because there are a *lot* of other variables involved. WAR enmity generation is *slightly* higher than a PLD's, but not by much.

[Kenji1134]

RoH itself is "mostly" fine, though I would like to redistribute some of the hate from RoH if possible.
Right now, our hate combo is 150 for Fast Blade, 600 for Savage Blade, and 1300 for RoH, for a total of 2050. Of that, Fast Blade is ~7%, Savage Blade is ~ 29%, and RoH is ~63%.
This is very back loaded, and makes aggro very spiky at the start of a fight.
I have detailed this in another post, but basically I would like to give Fast Blade a 3x threat mod, and lower RoH's threat mod to 4, down from 5.
This would make the combo: 150*3 + 200*3 + 260*4 = 2090, but now it is 22% - 29% - 49%, making it less spiky, yet still demands the use of RoH in a combo for maximum hate generation.

[SwordCoheir]

Defiance has a 25% damage penalty whereas Shield Oath only has a 20%. *snip char. limit*

Only WAR's damage thresholds are alot higher than PLD, and any WAR worth half a salt is going to at least keep Maim up a majority of the time to supplement that damage penalty. Let me put it to you this way, in full DL gear with +30 STR mods, Sword Oath, Relic +1, STR DL/Hero Accessories and DPS buffs, the highest I've ever ever hit on PLD was 699, on WAR with Lv55 VIT Accessories, +30 VIT mods, Ifrits Axe, full DL, Defiance, Maim, w/o Berserk I've hit for 875 and can crit in the 600-800 range quite often despite the PLD having higher STR and Better weapon. That difference in damage alone will give the WAR an edge in Enmity generation, proving that the WAR does know what they are doing.

[Brannigan]

I wouldn't mind if the STR Down effect went onto Riot Blade and they added a way to use Shield Swipe for increased enmity (Shield Swipe -> Spirits or Circle of Scorn, something like that). Warriors should probably also get STR Down on Fracture.