Please nerf Holy.

[Crescent_Dusk]

It should not be powerful without Cleric Stance. No other healer spell is.

Getting a OP spell is not how you justify being special.

A healer should NEVER be doing an AoE spell that rivals or outperforms the AoE of a DPS class.

[Crescent_Dusk]

It should not be powerful without Cleric Stance. No other healer spell is.

Getting a OP spell is not how you justify being special.

A healer should NEVER be doing an AoE spell that rivals or outperforms the AoE of a DPS class.

Sure is hard watching the Fairy heal for you.

Raid heal without Medica II (which is what scholars do), and it's not like you can't slap regen on someone while you're healing somebody else.

Then you can get back to me about WHM being hard.

[Filenotfound]

im a whm and do 15-18min speed runs of WP with my FC.
we do pld, brd, blm, whm combination. we are all quite geared with many ilv90 pieces.

brd mana songs while we aoe, so tank can spam flash.
We take 2-4 packs of enemies at a time and aoe them.

i would love to see a whm dance in and out of cleric stance while healing that, even with the tank using their normal cds. once the cds wear off, i have to SPAM cure 2 to keep him alive. if i had to take the extra 3-5 secs to turn on/off cleric stance (yes its a VERY long time to turn it off, since its affected by gcd, and even after gcd is off cd, for some reason it still does like to go off, then u hit it twice and turn it back on some times and -.-)

also its not that easy to weave a 3 sec cast into healing rotations. like try spamming shadow flare during a fight without your fairy healing XD

i usually only am able to cleric stance 1 holy, or maybe 2 if i do them back to back, otherwise tank will die.
sch in general do more damage then whm do in fight lol. and they are able to easier weave attacks into their rotations.
(i have a geared relic sch btw)


if u try to say "well if u only did 1-2 groups at a time whm is more op because they can spam holy more.".
Then my reply is what u keep saying "have you ever done speed runs"? :/

Raid heal without Medica II (which is what scholars do), and it's not like you can't slap regen on someone while you're healing somebody else.

Then you can get back to me about WHM being hard.

i rarely use medicaII on anything. its not that good of a skill. it uses too much mp, too long cast time, and generates WAY too much aggro.
Usually only baddy whm use medica II alot.

the only fights i used medicaII on is turn2 coil for the regen from wind ticks. Its not necessary, but it keeps me and sch on tanks longer. I mean the sch could keep everyone alive from that easily using succor. But i can cast 1 spell which lasts longer then 1 succor does, so its more effective.

titan doesnt need medica 2, i could just use 2 medicas instead (which heals for the almost same as 1 succor if u include NONcrit shield it gives, if u crit the shield succor is alot better).
But i usually throw on a medica II for stomps so i can throw dots on titan so it dies faster.

the only other time i use medica II is whem im TRYING to get aggro.

[Eriane]

It should not be powerful without Cleric Stance. No other healer spell is.

Getting a OP spell is not how you justify being special.

A healer should NEVER be doing an AoE spell that rivals or outperforms the AoE of a DPS class.

Its not powerful at all without cleric stance.

Its not an op spell. Its a 3 second cast with a 1 sec delay for over 500 mana and diminishing returns on stun.

It doesn't outperform actual aoe dps classes. Blm's get modifiers healers don't and can use dps buffs. I have seen blm aoe crit for double my highest crit.

Why shouldn't a healer be able to solo or farm if they sacrifice their healing? Cleric stance means you can't heal effectively at all. The idea that a healer is only ever a healer and never does anything except heal is outdated and silly.

[LostCody]

I just checked, you are correct.

However my main issue is that, while casting Bio/BioII/Miasma/Shadow Flare + Bane takes 10s ~ a WHM can weave in and out and cast Holy when needed and it even acts as a defensive CD with the stun.

so one job has something better then the other?
Why does everyone want too homogenize everything?

wht mage has holy but has trouble keeping mana in long fights without help,so maybe we should give aetherflow too wht mages in the form of a elemental "Draw" to recover mana.
smn don't have great burst outside of fester maybe we should give them flare in the form of a "decay" spell.
warriors have high hp but cant block,give them a new axe that has a shield on the front of it.
all good ideas yes?

[ken00]

please nerf yourself..

[Deculture]

Raid heal without Medica II (which is what scholars do), and it's not like you can't slap regen on someone while you're healing somebody else.

Then you can get back to me about WHM being hard.

SCH and WHM are about the same in difficulty unless you find micromanaging a few more abilities that are independent of your own GCD "difficult". On another note, SCH will never have threat issues because your healing is always going to be split between you and your faerie. A WHM, on the other hand, always has to gauge how much threat his spells will generate. This is extremely noticeable in encounters where healing threat is potentially a raid wiping issue (e.g. Turn 4).

Honestly, you're trying to compare a WHM's strength (aoe raid healing) to a SCH's weak point (shield based AoE heal to compliment WHM). That would be like a WHM complaining about how good SCHs are at single target healing (faerie manual Embrace casting + Physick + Lustrates). The only thing I would change for SCH healing is make pet abilities macroable (so that you can create a mouseover for Embrace), further improve pet AI (Selene/Eos still does w/e they want with their abilities once you start manual casting Embrace...), and SCH shields stack if cast by different SCHs. I play both jobs on a frequent basis and I honestly believe that SE did a good job on balancing the healer roles in this game outside of a few fringe elements such as WP speed runs.

Replacing a WHM with a SCH for WP speed runs makes it slightly longer (no more than 3 minutes), but that's mostly because our Bane currently doesn't spread to more than 3 targets which really limits our mass AoE capabilities down to just Miasma 2 and Shadowflare. I'm still not sure if Bane is just flat out bugged or the tooltip is wrong (it states "all targets").

im a whm and do 15-18min speed runs of WP with my FC.
we do pld, brd, blm, whm combination. we are all quite geared with many ilv90 pieces.

brd mana songs while we aoe, so tank can spam flash.
We take 2-4 packs of enemies at a time and aoe them.

i would love to see a whm dance in and out of cleric stance while healing that, even with the tank using their normal cds. once the cds wear off, i have to SPAM cure 2 to keep him alive. if i had to take the extra 3-5 secs to turn on/off cleric stance (yes its a VERY long time to turn it off, since its affected by gcd, and even after gcd is off cd, for some reason it still does like to go off, then u hit it twice and turn it back on some times and -.-)

also its not that easy to weave a 3 sec cast into healing rotations. like try spamming shadow flare during a fight without your fairy healing XD

i usually only am able to cleric stance 1 holy, or maybe 2 if i do them back to back, otherwise tank will die.
sch in general do more damage then whm do in fight lol. and they are able to easier weave attacks into their rotations.

Try having your BRD mana song for you while your group is on the move and Foe Requiem instead during AoE. I can usually Divine Seal Regen -> Cure 2 to top tank then Cleric Stance Holy until the pack is dead because of the dmg increase the BLM and I get from Foe Req.

[Nullie]

A healer should NEVER be doing an AoE spell that rivals or outperforms the AoE of a DPS class.

Why? Because you said so?

The other day I decided to join a random castrum in duty. Didn't feel like searching for a group or speed running. Just felt like playing. End up getting paired with another white mage. Half the people was their first time including the white mage. So the tank is decked in all darklight and relic +1 goes to tanking. Gathers up all the mobs. I switch to cleric and start my holy. The tank of course isn't taking hardly any damage thanks to his defense and regen. The other white mage notices and tries to mimic what I am doing as he was just standing there. He only had af armor on and a white level 50ish weapon.

Let me tell you even with his cleric stance on I don't think he would have done much more damage than with it off. I had almost 4k hp while he had around 2.7k hp. My cure 1 were shy of about 100-200 points of healing than his cure 2. The amount of damage he was hitting for his holy was what I would have been doing with my cleric stance off. If it was nerfed just how much more weaker could that spell get for him?

Before all this ivl70/90 gear was common in players people managed to beat wanderer's palace with just regular gear and regular weapons. Who would have thought it was possible? And still to this day it is. Now try playing Coil with those armor and weapons. You can't do it. I don't think your party could survive the golem stomp to make it to the first boss in turn 1. But now we have equipment that lets us complete this content pretty easy. Now take those players and gear we have and then take it to that back to a dungeon that can be completed with regular artifact armor easy enough. Yeah. Everyone there is OP. EVERYONE. Doesn't matter how you spin it. The enemies aren't leveling up. They aren't getting better armor. They aren't getting better weapons. Their skills aren't doing anymore damage.

We are way past what was normal at one point in this game. By nerfing holy, you only will hurt those players who are new to the game. It isn't our fault we were given this gear with tons of mind on it to use at level 50. If people honestly want a nerf, then it needs to be to equipment, but I don't agree with that and probably neither will you or most everyone here.

[Ariyn]

Came here expecting some decent thought input into something that maybe meaningful. Instead it's either a troll thread or incredibly misguided conceptions.

Considering I was speed running WP last week for people and grouped with a few of our whm's and sch's I can easily tell you that our runs were not only faster but easier with the sch. A good sch can and will dot up mobs + Bane in the time it takes for the SCH shield and stoneskin to wear off. The SCH dot's over the cast do more dmg then Holy can come close to and the sch's threat is minimal where as a holy spamming whm will pull 1-2 mobs off me since normally all I am doing is Flashing then Riot blade for mp before the next pack.

Perhaps the issue isn't with the spells, actually I know it's not with the spells. This is completely your issue and a flat out misconception.

[Ceelo_Mage]

If you've been running Wanderer's Palace as of late, you'll know how much better WHM is compared to SCH.

SCH needs a decent direct damage AoE. SCH DPS is far too DoT heavy, meaning you can't dance in-and-out of Cleric Stance.

What they need to do is simply turn Holy into a DoT.

What are you smoking ?

SCH is amazing aoe

in AK and WP i never have to cast a single heal on trash or boss, unless the tank is super undergeared ( but i dont pug i only run with my FC, which we are all over geared )

Nerfing Holy would be stupid and pointless